I agree 70% with Jim (70% a metaphor not a mathematical estimate). We do have to talk about democracy, but there is an important sense in which we should make no effort at all to describe the details of a post-capitalist order. The young Marx rejected writing recipes for the cook shops of the future; the mature Marx included only a couple deliberately vague paragraphs on socialism (word not used) in _Capital_ vol. I. Rosa Luxemburg, insisting that "the final goal" was everything, explicitly rejected any notion of socialism as constituting that final goal. Marx wrote, "The anatomy of man is a key to the anatomy of the ape," a perspective which Ollman glossed as "doing history backwards." Mao noted that Marxists had no crystal ball. Sweezy argued that "socialism" could not be a science (i.e. a theory) because science was for elites/specialists so that "science of socialism" implied the dictatorship of the Party Leadership. Luxemburg posited as the "final goal" which made sense of present action to be "political power." That has its own difficulties but at least does not claim that we can write a recipe for that post-capitalist world. I think I can include both Jim & Rosa by positing as the Final Goal a Constituent Assembly. We cannot dictate what that Constituent Assembly will do, but we can posit it as a goal which implicitly includes democracy without the arrogance of saying what the demos, in power, "must" decide.
Carrol -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Devine Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:31 PM To: Progressive Economics Subject: Re: [Pen-l] 7/19 (NYC): Are people not ready for socialism? Chuck Grimes wrote: > I don't disagree. But remember the question was about people ready for > socialism, and I gave an answer to that question. right. But I think that it's wrong to use the Right's definition of "socialism," which is shared by the middle and much of the left, i.e. that socialism = statism. I'd emphasize the need for increased and improved democracy at the same time I'd talk about the way that collective provision of services (public libraries, Medicare for all, etc.) can be great. -- Jim Devine / a long-time card-carrying member of the public library. _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
