If I accept that I live on planet Earth, am I taking the status quo for granted? If I accept that 2 + 2 = 4, am I taking the status quo for granted?
If I accept that policies in Washington are determined by Democrats and Republicans, am I taking the status quo for granted? If I accept that it matters who gets elected to Congress, am I taking the status quo for granted? On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jim Devine <[email protected]> wrote: > Why the sectarian practice of calling people names because you don't like > their political slant? (here, calling members Occupy "ultraleft" seems > sectarian at best.) If you don't like them, you should simply call them > "assholes" and move on. On a forum like pen-l, it's appropriate to provide > some sort of intellectual justification for your disdain instead. And I > don't see why you see Occupy as having faded. It's not like they've become > apparatchiks for some politician. > > anyway, asking again: what kind of politics are we interested in? those > that take the status quo for granted? > > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Robert Naiman < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I oppose your Procrustean distinction. #occupy was heterogeneous. The >> majority were for political engagement. The minority ultraleft faction was >> against political engagement. The minority ultraleft faction eventually won >> out, as it often does in such situations, by its greater ability to endure >> long meetings, engage in personal attacks, etc. That's a key reason #occupy >> faded, because the meetings were captured by the ultraleft. Normal people >> gave up and drifted away. >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Jim Devine <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> what is "politics" as used in the phrase "political engagement"? is it >>> lobbying based on the existing balance of power (kissing up to in-power >>> politicians to get favors, etc.) or is it does it involve efforts to change >>> the balance of political power (as with the Occupy movement)? >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Robert Naiman < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think your diagnosis is faulty. I think the key problem is that the >>>> "Left" doesn't believe in political engagement. It believes in impotent >>>> complaining. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Jim Devine <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> it's true. So much of the "Left" has become Democratic Party drones -- >>>>> following the Party Line and chanting about the "lesser of two evils" -- >>>>> that the "Left" may be an endangered species. But that doesn't mean that >>>>> it >>>>> (unlike an actual species) can't revive. the Obama/GOP austerity program >>>>> could spark a new progressive movement of some sort that refuses to be >>>>> co-opted. Maybe the Occupy movement? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Robert Naiman < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This is the moment of truth. Now we'll find out if America has a Left >>>>>> or not. If America has a Left, chained CPI can be stopped. Otherwise, the >>>>>> notion that America has a Left will from now on always be a bad joke. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Jim Devine <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> and some people hoped he was the new FDR? if "we're all Keynesians," >>>>>>> he's an exception. >>>>>>> [from >>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/us/social-programs-face-cutback-in-obama-budget.html >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> Obama Budget to Include Cuts to Programs in Hopes of Deal By JACKIE >>>>>>> CALMES<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/jackie_calmes/index.html> >>>>>>> Published: >>>>>>> April 5, 2013 >>>>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/us/social-programs-face-cutback-in-obama-budget.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130405&_r=0#commentsContainer> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WASHINGTON — President Obama next week will take the political risk >>>>>>> of formally proposing cuts to Social >>>>>>> Security<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/social_security_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>and >>>>>>> Medicare<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicare/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>in >>>>>>> his annual budget in an effort to demonstrate his willingness to >>>>>>> compromise with Republicans and revive prospects for a long-term >>>>>>> deficit-reduction deal, administration officials say. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a significant shift in fiscal strategy, Mr. Obama on Wednesday >>>>>>> will send a budget plan to Capitol Hill that departs from the usual >>>>>>> presidential wish list that Republicans typically declare dead on >>>>>>> arrival. >>>>>>> Instead it will embody the final compromise offer that he made to >>>>>>> Speaker >>>>>>> John A. Boehner late last year, before Mr. Boehner abandoned >>>>>>> negotiations >>>>>>> in opposition to the president’s demand for higher taxes from wealthy >>>>>>> individuals and some corporations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Congressional Republicans have dug in against any new tax revenues >>>>>>> after higher taxes for the affluent were approved at the start of the >>>>>>> year. >>>>>>> The administration’s hope is to create cracks in Republicans’ antitax >>>>>>> resistance, especially in the Senate, as constituents complain about the >>>>>>> across-the-board cuts in military and domestic programs that took effect >>>>>>> March 1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mr. Obama’s proposed deficit reduction would replace those cuts. And >>>>>>> if Republicans continue to resist the president, the White House >>>>>>> believes >>>>>>> that most Americans will blame them for the fiscal paralysis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Besides the tax increases that most Republicans continue to oppose, >>>>>>> Mr. Obama’s >>>>>>> budget<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/f/federal_budget_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>will >>>>>>> propose a new inflation formula that would have the effect of reducing >>>>>>> cost-of-living payments for Social Security benefits, though with >>>>>>> financial >>>>>>> protections for low-income and very old beneficiaries, administration >>>>>>> officials said. The idea, known as chained C.P.I., has infuriated some >>>>>>> Democrats and advocacy groups to Mr. Obama’s left, and they have already >>>>>>> mobilized in opposition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As Mr. Obama has before, his budget documents will emphasize that he >>>>>>> would support the cost-of-living change, as well as other reductions >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> Republicans have called for in the popular programs for older Americans, >>>>>>> only if Republicans agree to additional taxes on the wealthy and >>>>>>> infrastructure investments that the president called for in last year’s >>>>>>> offer to Mr. Boehner. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mr. Obama will propose other spending and tax credit initiatives, >>>>>>> including aid for states to make free prekindergarten education >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> nationwide — a priority outlined in his State of the Union >>>>>>> address<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/state_of_the_union_message_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>in >>>>>>> February. He will propose to pay for it by raising federal taxes on >>>>>>> cigarettes and other tobacco products. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “The president has made clear that he is willing to compromise and >>>>>>> do tough things to reduce the deficits, but only in the context of a >>>>>>> package like this one that has balance and includes revenues from the >>>>>>> wealthiest Americans and that is designed to promote economic growth,” >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> a senior administration official, who, like others, declined to be >>>>>>> identified confirming details about the coming budget. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “That means,” the official added, “that the things like C.P.I. that >>>>>>> Republican leaders have pushed hard for will only be accepted if >>>>>>> Congressional Republicans are willing to do more on revenues.” >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your >>>>>>> own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> pen-l mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Robert Naiman >>>>>> Policy Director >>>>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> pen-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your >>>>> own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pen-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robert Naiman >>>> Policy Director >>>> Just Foreign Policy >>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pen-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own >>> way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pen-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Naiman >> Policy Director >> Just Foreign Policy >> www.justforeignpolicy.org >> [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pen-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >> >> > > > -- > Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own > way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. > > _______________________________________________ > pen-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l > > -- Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org [email protected]
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