:-)

I thought the bit I copied was funny. Can't guess how e-mail tone turns out.


And I did get two _very_ useful pointers towards the concept: change the
"conversation" and terrain of struggle.

More later. I hope. Sheer age or the pitter-patter of little TIAs is slowing
me up a bit.

Carrol I

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:pen-l-
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Walker
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 6:22 PM
> To: Progressive Economics
> Subject: Re: [Pen-l] Query re "Transformative Reforms" was Is 'post-work'
a
> social democratic fantasy?
> 
> O.K. but the site from Google was a diversion. I still would prefer that
you
> consider my comment in the context of Kliman's critique rather than as
some
> abstract hypothesis about "transformative reforms." You may recall that in
> Value, Price and Profit, Marx criticized Weston's notion that it was
futile to
> struggle for higher wages. Marx concluded his exposition with the
statement
> that:
> 
> 
>       "Trades Unions work well as centers of resistance against the
> encroachments of capital.They fail partially from an injudicious use of
their
> power. They fail generally from limiting themselves to a guerilla war
against
> the effects of the existing system, instead of simultaneously trying to
change
> it, instead of using their organized forces as a lever for the final
emancipation
> of the working class that is to say the ultimate abolition of the wages
> system."
> 
> 
> Thus it wasn't pointless to struggle for higher wages. It just wasn't
enough.
> But what's the "next step"? Marx suggested it should be raising the banner
> "Abolish the wages system!" Maybe that was tongue in cheek. But if so, a
lot
> of people have taken it at face value and if not it's actually a pretty
> ineffectual idea for a slogan. The average Marxian theoretician -- let
alone
> the average worker -- doesn't have a clue about what it might mean to
> abolish the wages system. So what would be the point of writing it on a
> banner? Irony?
> 
> Elsewhere, Marx talks about the limitation of the working day as a
> "preliminary condition" for improvement and emancipation. This makes
> more sense. It was something that trade unions (and workers outside of
> trade unions) were actually demanding at the time. And it is something
that
> highlights the subordination of workers to capital rather than the
exchange
> of an "equivalent" (x wages for y labor).
> 
> I think there needs to be more ambiguity about demands. What I mean is
> that policies, programs, slogans, demands need to be ambiguous as to
> whether or not they entail a rejection of the capitalist system. My point
is
> that. for example, in a labor negotiation the employer (private sector, at
> least) maintains the potential threat of bankruptcy, outsourcing,
offshoring
> etc. Against such a catastrophic (but ambiguous) threat, the threat of a
work
> stoppage is trivial.
> 
> Without the threat of the workers outright rejecting the system, the
balance
> of coercion is very uneven exclusively in favor of capital. But on the
other
> hand, an overt, unequivocal "threat" that is not acted on ceases to be
> credible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Carrol Cox <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
>       I was asking you, not google. The latter was merely a preliminary
> check.
> 
>       I didn't even read very far in the site I quoted from. I knew your
> meaning
>       must be different, but the quote was a way of narrowing the
> question.
> 
>       Carrol
> 
> 
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: [email protected] [mailto:pen-l-
>       > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Walker
>       > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 12:58 PM
>       > To: Progressive Economics
>       > Subject: Re: [Pen-l] Query re "Transformative Reforms" was Is
> 'post-work'
>       a
>       > social democratic fantasy?
>       >
>       > Better to ask me what I mean than ask Google. Maybe the NSA
> knows what
>       > I'm thinking but they won't say. Transformative reforms are
> reforms that
>       > change -- or potentially change -- the "conversation" or the
terrain
> of
>       > struggle.
>       >
>       > Please don't get hung up on the word choice. The Rose Community
>       > Foundation is welcome to use the same words to talk about
> whatever they
>       > are talking about. What I was commenting on was a critique by
> Andrew
>       > Kliman, not an announcement from the aforementioned
> foundation. Either
>       > consider my comment in the context it was presented or ignore it.
>       >
>       >
>       > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Carrol Cox <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>       >
>       >
>       >       Tom Walker: "This doesn't mean such improvement can go on
>       > indefinitely, but
>       >       such improvement as can be achieved has the potential of
> opening
>       > up other
>       >       possibilities. That's the notion of transformative reforms."
>       >
>       >       =========
>       >
>       >       This concept ("transformative reforms") sounds interesting,
but
> I
>       > would like
>       >       to see some clarification of its content. I googled the
phrase, but
>       > didn't
>       >       see much that fit the present context. One example is
attached
> below
>       > (in
>       >       part). I
>       >
>       >       Carrol
>       >
>       >       ****
>       >       Home > Press Releases >
>       >        CLF Announces Forward-Thinking Funding Support from Rose
>       > Community
>       >       Foundation
>       >       CLF Announces Forward-Thinking Funding Support from Rose
>       > Community
>       >       Foundation
>       >       Posted at June 25, 2013 | 0 Comment
>       >
>       >       FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>       >       June 25, 2013
>       >       Colorado Legacy Foundation Announces Forward-Thinking
> Funding
>       > Support from
>       >       Rose Community Foundation
>       >
>       >       DENVER, CO - Today the Colorado Legacy Foundation (CLF)
>       > announced another
>       >       significant investment by Rose Community Foundation to
> support
>       > CLF's
>       >       sustainability. The $300,000 two-year grant will build
>       organizational
>       >       capacity to support communications and development, project
>       > management and
>       >       collaborative partnerships.
>       >
>       >       "Rose Community Foundation has been an integral part of the
>       > success of our
>       >       organization. More importantly, they have seeded
> transformative
>       > reforms
>       >       throughout Colorado - reforms that are garnering national
>       > attention," said
>       >       Dr. Helayne Jones, President and CEO of the Colorado Legacy
>       > Foundation. "At
>       >       the Colorado Legacy Foundation, we believe that not one
> initiative,
>       or
>       > one
>       >       organization for that matter, can meaningfully and
permanently
>       > deliver on
>       >       the promise of a great education for every student in this
state.
>       And
>       > this
>       >       investment by Rose Community Foundation is a critical
> statement of
>       > support
>       >       for CLF's whole child, whole system, whole community
approach
> to
>       > engage with
>       >       multiple stakeholders cross the state and at every level of
>       > education."
>       >
>       >       Rose Community Foundation was one of the first investors in
> the
>       > programmatic
>       >       work of CLF partnering with other organizations including
> Daniels
>       > Fund,
>       >       Gates Family Foundation and The Piton Foundation to provide
>       > support to
>       >       infrastructure needs that have not kept pace with CLF's
rapid
>       growth.
>       > In
>       >       addition, the CLF's success in drawn national funding has
been
>       > bolstered
>       >       greatly by the widespread support of Colorado's local
funding
>       > community.
>       >       [snip]
>       >
>       >       http://colegacy.org/2013/06/colorado-legacy-foundation-
>       > announces-forward-thi
>       >       nking-funding-support-from-rose-community-foundation/
> 
>       > <http://colegacy.org/2013/06/colorado-legacy-foundation-
> announces-
>       > forward-thi nking-funding-support-from-rose-community-
> foundation/>
> 
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >       _______________________________________________
>       >       pen-l mailing list
>       >       [email protected]
>       >       https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > --
>       > Cheers,
>       >
>       > Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
> 
> 
>       _______________________________________________
>       pen-l mailing list
>       [email protected]
>       https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom Walker (Sandwichman)


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