my understanding of the historical development of these things is that DE
Shaw and O'Connor originally started off by trying to data-mine stock prices
to come up with money-making machines.  They ended up finding that the quant
models they come up with kept on advising them to put on huge
more-or-less-offsetting positions in order to exploit small but robust
arbitrages.  This meant that they had a gruesome problem of slippage, and so
they ended up inventing the kind of algorithmic trading systems I was
talking about, in order to get their positions on as efficiently as
possible.  And thus was algorithmic trading invented.

But there certainly are algorithms used to pick stocks - AHL, probably the
biggest and most successful commodities fund in the world, is almost
entirely formula-driven, and a lot of BGI's hedge fund money is too.  The
thing is though that in a lot of these things, the actual trading rules are
quite laughably simple (moving average crossovers, four week breakouts and
such; about the most complicated thing you'll see is a cointegrating
regression for trading pairs of stocks), but the system for putting the
actual positions on is seriously complicated.  If AHL sent you a CD with all
of their trading system on it, it would most likely be totally useless to
you as you would not be able to execute anything like the trades they do.

best
dd

-----Original Message-----
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Perelman,
Michael
Sent: 25 November 2006 16:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Formula for disaster


This came just before the part I cited.  It suggests that algorithms are
used to pick stocks.  I was very surprised by the estimate of one-third.
David's explanation makes it seem sensible.  Thanks.

"Complicated stock picking methods are nothing new. For decades, Wall
Street firms and hedge funds like D. E. Shaw  have snapped up math and
engineering Ph.D.s and assigned them to find hidden market patterns.
When these analysts discover subtle relationships, like similarities in
the price movements of Microsoft and I.B.M., investors seek profits by
buying one stock and selling the other when their prices diverge,
betting historical patterns will eventually push them back into
synchronicity."


Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901
www.michaelperelman.wordpress.com
-----Original Message-----
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel
Davies
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Formula for disaster

aaaargh!  algorithmic trading is completely misunderstood and articles
claiming it's "a computer to pick stocks" are the problem.

It's algorithmic *trading*.  The algorithms aren't used to pick the
stocks,
they're used to minimise the "slippage" in placing the trades.  The
point is
that if you decide you want to buy $100million of Google and it's
trading at
$499, then normally, by the time your trades have gone through, you've
pushed the price up to $505, meaning that the average price you paid is
somewhere around $502.

If you have a smart trader working for you, he will break your order up
into
chunks, and time the placing of the chunks for when he thinks that there
are
biggish Sell orders coming across the market.  If he can do this
reasonably
well, then he might get your average price down to $501, which is
obviously
a big saving.

The "algorithmic trading" models that this article is talking about are
just
a way of automating that process.  Some of them are quite tricksy in
forecasting the flow of orders, but the main gain from an algorithmic
trading system is that a computer can watch a lot more broken-up orders
than
a human being and never forgets about any of them.

There are some automated stock-picking systems out there, but they're
nowhere near a third of the market (and most of them are basically used
by
index funds).

best
dd



-----Original Message-----
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Perelman,
Michael
Sent: 25 November 2006 02:31
To: [email protected]
Subject: Formula for disaster


The New York Times discusses the growth of trading financial assets by
mathematical formulae.  This type of trading can potentially overwhelm
markets -- something the article does not mention.

Duhigg, Charles. 2006. "A Smarter Computer to Pick Stocks." New York
Times (24 November).
"Studies estimate that a third of all stock trades in the United States
were driven by automatic algorithms last year, contributing to an
explosion in stock market activity.  Between 1995 and 2005, the average
daily volume of shares traded on the New York Stock Exchange increased
to 1.6 billion from 346 million.  But in recent years, as algorithms and
traditional quantitative techniques have multiplied, their successes
have slowed."


Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901
www.michaelperelman.wordpress.com

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