I honestly do not know what "protagonistic democracy" and "antagonistic democracy" mean. I was,am referring to classes. The social forces, the old conflict between means and relations of production that has triggered both the struggle in Iran and Venezuela, propelled in both cases the working class, urban and rural poor, forward.
In the case of Iran, the struggle has been suppressed, not resolved, at the expense of the workers. In Venezuela, it has not. It seems to me that all this talk about "North-South" "protagonist- antagonist" is a basic recycling of the old "First world-third world" argument about the exceptionalism of the movements, struggles in "third world" countries from the specific, "traditional" class analysis, evaluation, program etc. inherent in Marxism. Now the discussion about Iran is tedious in the extreme, and not just to the moderator, because, in my opinion, Yoshie rejects out of hand the validity of even attempting a class, economic, social analysis of Iran, and in a sense, practices a reverse sectarianism-- arguing that support for the government of Iran, no matter what its policies may be, no matter what its social basis is, is incumbent on all while support for workers in conflict with that government should be withheld until such time as the workers announce themselves explicitly and all at once for socialism. Whatever can and needs to be said about Iran, Proyect has at least introduced this need for social, class analysis into the debate. -----Original Message----- >From: Yoshie Furuhashi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: May 11, 2007 9:09 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Poverty and Inequality in Venezuela > >On 5/11/07, sartesian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> No doubt about it. Venezuela is not utopia. But this, the >> "progressive" nature of a society, is not just a question of equal >> distribution. It is also a question of development of the organs of >> class power. And in this regard, with the Bolivarian circles of >> Venezuela, the neighborhood and factory organizations, Venezuela is >> surely "more progressive" than Iran. > >Here, we have an interesting contrast. It is said that Venezuela's >democracy is protagonistic, and protagonism is to a certain extent >fostered and nurtured by the government, not just demanded from below; >whereas Iran's democracy has been antagonistic. While I like the >former, there is much to be said about the latter, in my view. >-- >Yoshie
