On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Doug Henwood wrote:
On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:03 PM, ravi wrote:
Doug questioned the guys credibility by
calling Fox News "polemical genius" and other such stuff
They are geniuses of polemic. That's a completely noncontroversial
statement. I'm almost embarrassed by the obviousness of it, in fact.
Let me relieve your embarrassment then! I believe they are geniuses of
nothing, even if they tend to offer the polemical, unless of course we
consider success a sole measure of genius. i.e., Fox News is
successful at riling up the obvious suspects and the cheapest
instincts using tried and tested techniques. But you hardly need to be
a genius to achieve that, yes?
On Feb 18, 2008, at 10:40 PM, John Gulick wrote:
I wince at the suggestion that I'm in the same league as Marty when
it comes to the
political economy of anything East Asian. I'm in no position to
offer trustworthy insight
as to what's really going on inside China.... very few are. Perhaps
too intemperately,
I was simply warning against drawing conclusions from CCP press
releases. Even when
policies coming from the central government sound excellent and
deserve our "critical
support" (FWIW, which ain't much!), they are routinely given lip
service but not obeyed,
subverted, ignored, etc. Despite conventional understanding China is
very decentralized
and chaotic and often Beijing can't do much more issue than pleasant-
sounding directives.
One has to be a seasoned political sociologist or veteran
bureaucratic infighter to understand
this and report credibly (and I am neither)... which is precisely
why, Ravi, I considered Eric's
postings to be so much insubstantial dross.
Well, yes, perhaps he has drunk the Kool Aid, but even if forms of
doctrinaire positions/posts are not new, they do not automatically
become insubstantial and non-productive. In fact, I tend to agree with
your view (FWIW -- I have very little knowledge of China and its
internal politics) but that is exactly the reason that I want to hear
from someone who might offer an alternate view and a first-hand one at
that.
On Doug's LBO list, there are one or two individuals who consistently
post news bits about the glories of the new India while refusing to be
drawn into any discussion on the content presented or even giving us
some insight into how they see/interpret these news bits relative to
leftist ideology (both Western and Indian). Yet Doug and Co on LBO are
happy to tolerate the material -- which is good since as a leftist I
would be opposed to shutting people down for not following my
preferred mode of dialogue. Yet, there is something to be learned from
India's and China's development model (or should I just say: recent
developmental history), irrespective of whether it is centrally
planned or controlled. If someone were to pop up (as they already
are!) and point to India's success as yet another example of the
glories of capitalism (as the final solution, no pun), there is a need
to understand and if necessary refute these claims. To me, it is of
even greater interest should someone suggest that this recent success
can be claimed on behalf of socialism, seen in some particular light,
exactly because I would be hard-pressed to understand how that could
be. Now, if something sounds incredulous one may choose to ignore it
in order to save energy. But for those who do wish to engage that
person, they can ask for no more than that the person be willing to
carry out an urbane discussion, which Eric seemed capable of and
interested in doing.
I will readily accept that this being a technical list, such
conversations may not be considered worthwhile to the majority. But
that is not what the list moderator noted in one of the earliest posts
on this set of threads.
--ravi
