Perl 6 Summary for 2005-07-05 through 2005-07-12
    All~

    Welcome to another summary from the frog house. A house so green it can
    be seen from outerspace (according to google earth).

  Perl 6 Compiler
   Building Pugs Workaround
    Sam Vilain posted a useful work around to the error "error: field
    `_crypt_struct' has incomplete type" which occurs on some systems.
    Fortunately, Salvador Ortiz Garcia found a fix.

    <http://xrl.us/gqjy>

    <http://xrl.us/gqjz>

   Pugs, Pirate. Pirate, Pugs.
    Autrijus began plotting with the Pirate folks. Thoughts include unifying
    PIL and PAST or possibly retargeting PIL to PAST. Perhaps the result
    should be a more nautical dog... maybe schipperke.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj2>

   Implicit Invocants and Pain
    Larry (as will be summarized later) ruled that " ./method " was gone. he
    further ruled that " .method " would pitch fits at either compile or run
    time if " $_ =:= $?SELF " was false. Autrijus found this quite difficult
    to implement. Talk continues, my instincts tell me that this too will
    pass, although Larry assures us that it is absolutely permanent for at
    least a week.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj3>

  Parrot
   Key Question
    Klass-Jan Stol found that using a assigning a floating point value to a
    key and then using it make parrot segfault. Warnock applies.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj4>

   Parrot Copyrights
    Allison Randal hinted that The Perl Foundation has almost finished
    hammering out some legal stuff and there will soon be sweeping changes
    throughout the repository addressing copyright issues.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj5>

   Character Classes in Globs
    Will Coleda noted that Tcl would pass more tests if PGE supported
    characters classes in globs. Patrick, unable to resist the siren call of
    passing tests, implemented it.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj6>

   Amber for Parrot
    Roger Browne announced that he had succeed in extracting viable DNA from
    a Parrot encased in amber since the Jurasic age. Either that or he
    release Amber version 0.2.2... not sure which.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj7>

   Leo's Branch
    Leo has created a branch in SVN (branches/leo-ctx5) of his work
    implementing the new calling conventions. This led to some discussion of
    how to deal with optional arguments.

    <http://xrl.us/gqj8>

    <http://xrl.us/gqj9>

   Leo's Branch Meets mod_parrot
    Jeff Horwitz posted some observations and troubles he was having with
    Leo's branch of new calling conventions. Leo warned that the branch was
    still young, but would gladly take test cases.

    <http://xrl.us/gqka>

   Leo's Branch Meets PGE
    After the initial discussion of optional parameter, Patrick updated the
    leo_ctx5 branch of PGE to the new calling conventions. All tests pass.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkb>

   Get onto the Bus
    Matt Diephouse found a Bus Error when running
    languages/tcl/examples/bench.tcl. Warnock applies.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkc>

   MinGW Patch Resurrection
    Fran├žois Perrad resurected a patch from mid June with a set of action
    items. Warnock applies.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkd>

   Scared Parrots Like Scheme
    Joh Lenz posted an announcement that he had an alpha version of Chicken
    (a Scheme to C compiler) backending to Parrot. Leo provided answers to
    some of his questions.

    <http://xrl.us/gqke>

   Bytecode vs PMCs
    Matt Diephouse posted a list of questions about the place of PMCs. Some
    of the core tradeoffs include: maintability, portability, optimization,
    duplicate implementations, and security.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkf>

   make svnclean
    Leo pointed out that make svnclean got removed, but that he found it
    useful. Chip suggested that it be renamed make svnclobber, as it does
    more than just clean.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkg>

   pmc2c.pl Bug
    Nicholas Clark found a bug in the shortcut to avoid writing a pmc dump
    file. Warnock applies.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkh>

   Define "cache"
    Nicholas Clark suggested that it was probably not wise to #define
    "cache". So they removed it.

    <http://xrl.us/gqki>

   Parrots Getting Smarter
    Leo pointed out that at least one parrot understood the concept of zero,
    putting it some distance ahead of romans when it comes to math. Once the
    Parrots start to grow opposable thumbs, I will welcome our new Parrot
    overlords.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkj>

   Leo's Branch Meets Exceptions
    Leo posted two suggestions for how the new calling conventions could
    interact with Exceptions. Autrijus liked the one that unifies exception
    handlers with the rest of calls and returns.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkk>

   Control Flow Graph Bugs
    Curtis Rawls noted what he thought might be a bug in the
    compute_dominators function. Leo confirmed that it was likely a bug.
    Later he posted a note saying he was working on a new implementation for
    some of the CFG algorithms. He asked for a hand, but Warnock applied.
    Actually, I think I have looked at that code before. I would help be
    happy to take a look Curtis.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkm>

   TODO: Steal Good Ideas from Dan
    Will Coleda opened a ticket suggesting that we open tickets based on
    some of Dan's latest posts to Squaks of the Parrot. Remember: "talent
    immitates, but genius, genius steals".

    <http://xrl.us/gqkn>

   Punie
    Allison Randal wants to add Punie (a Perl 1 compiler) to svn. Response
    was positive.

    <http://xrl.us/gqko>

   Mobilizing PM groups
    Will Coleda wondered if there had been any work mobilizing Perl Monger
    groups for the good of Parrot. Maybe I should finally look up the
    Cambridge or Boston PM group...

    <http://xrl.us/gqkp>

    <http://xrl.us/gqkq>

  Perl 6 Language
    As usual in p6l land, there are a couple really long threads. As usual
    in p6summarizer land, they will get short summaries. Odd how that
    happens.

   Conflicting Autogenerated Accessors
    Last week, Stevan Little wondered what would happen with conflicting
    autogenerated accessor names. Larry said they would carp as soon as they
    were discovered.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkr>

   DBI v2
    The first really long thread has to do with the next version of DBI. I
    am not really a database person. But apparently those who are have
    strong opinions.

    <http://xrl.us/gqks>

    <http://xrl.us/gqkt>

   Time::Local
    The next really long thread has to do with the next version of
    Time::Local. I am not really a Time person. But apparently those who are
    have strong opinions.

    <http://xrl.us/gqku>

   submethods
    Stevan Little and Larry Wall talked about submethods, their purpose, and
    their interaction with the meta model. I must say that I have only
    partially wrapped my head around metamodels at all.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkv>

   SMD Considered Harmful?
    Last week, Yuval Kogman conjectured that MMD should be the one true MD,
    as it allowed nifty extensibility. This week Stuart Cook offered a sort
    of compromise. I rather like Stuart's compromise.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkw>

   Dependency Injection
    Piers wants to be able to have classes that inject themselves in
    correctly at use time based on what is actually used. Larry commented,
    but one quote really caught my attention "Globals are bad only if you
    use them to hold non-global values". <off topic>There is an important
    lesson imbedded in that quote. We really should learn rules not to
    follow them blindly, but so that we understand the spirit behind them
    and respect that instead. Not that I have had screaming matches with any
    programmers who blindly eshew globals and goto's without understanding
    why... </off topic> That was more of a rant then just off topic. Oh
    well.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkx>

   File.seek Interface
    Wolverian wondered what the seek interface would look like for handles.
    Larry likes the idea of it working entirely through opaque position
    objects using "`" to specify units.

    <http://xrl.us/gqky>

   Perl6/Perl5 ~ 82%
    Michael Hendricks noticed that (accrding to Text::TypingEffort). Perl 6
    requires 18% less effort than Perl 5. He suggests that this is a bad
    thing for the communities wasteline. I conjecture that perl developers
    will use the extra time they save for activities like running and
    canoeing and as a result will paradoxically lose weight from expending
    less effort at work.

    <http://xrl.us/gqkz>

   Creating Value Types
    Ingo Blechschmidt wondered how to create a value type. Luke Palmer
    suggested using an " is value " trait. He then went on to speculate
    about mutating value traits and COW semantics. Larry though that perhaps
    an " is copy " trait was called for. Oooh, a preposition at the end of a
    sentance, makes me want to occasionally split infinitives...

    <http://xrl.us/gqk2>

   OO .isa
    Ingo Blechschmidt viciously lied when claiming to post a "quick" isa
    question. This quickly went the way of the meta object. I think I
    mentioned my take on those earlier (powerful, but ow).

    <http://xrl.us/gqk3>

   Method Call on Invocant
    The last really long thread has to do with the next chapter in the
    method call on self saga. I am a bit of a method call on self person.
    And apparently those who are have strong opinions. Woth note this time
    is that Larry updated the current state of the world. Now " ./method "
    is gone, and " .method " only works when " $_ =:= $?SELF ".

    <http://xrl.us/gqk4>

   Use and Require Question
    Ingo Blechschmidt wondered what use and require actually do. Gall Yahas
    suggested they return the last thing in the used/required file. Larry
    aggreed and held that they would also return the same thing. He also
    warned that %INC would probably work differently in Perl6.

    <http://xrl.us/gqk6>

   User Defined Infix
    Autrijus wondered if an method " infix:<===" > would eed to be marked as
    export for a script that "use"s it to get the method. Larry explained
    that the method " infix:<===" > would be available by name, but would
    have to be marked as export for the syntactic sugar of " A === B " to
    work.

    <http://xrl.us/gqk7>

   Hackathon Notes
    Autrijus posted a link to his hackathon notes. This spawned several
    threads. David Storrs tried to convince people to change subject lines,
    with limited success. Much of the discussion focused on MMD and how
    confusing it was. Damian Conway posted his set of 3 rules that would
    prevent AIs from harming humans and his set of 8 rules that would
    prevent MMDs from harming programmers. Proving that MMDs are almost 3
    times more dangerous than AIs.

    <http://xrl.us/gqk8>

   Raw Binary Data
    David Formosa wanted to play with raw binary data in Perl 6. I try and
    avoid raw things except sushi. Larry suggested that this would just be a
    string whose maximum abstraction level was set to bytes.

    <http://xrl.us/gqk9>

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