=head1 Perl 6 Summary for 2005-10-10 through 2005-10-18


Welcome to another Perl 6 Summary.  Sadly, this week's summary is not
brought to you by cookies as I already finished them.  Sadder still,
it is also brought to you a week late.  On the plus side, Mike
Doughty's "Haughty Melodic" is quite good.

=head2 Perl 6 Compilers

This was a shockingly high volume fortnight for p6c with 5 different
threads on it!

=head3 Feather:  A Retrospective

Juerd thought that now would be a good time to evaluate the usefulness
of feather to the community.  Warnock applies, but he probably found
answers off list...

Google Groups : perl.perl6.compiler

=head3 PGE Better, Stronger, Faster

Patrick announced "significant internal updates" to PGE.  It looks
like things are coming along very nicely.  Yay, Patrick!

Google Groups : perl.perl6.compiler

=head3 PGE Now With Better Balance

Patrick also announced the subrule C<PGE::Text::bracketed> which is
similar to C<Text::Balanced> from Perl 5.  Now where, did I put my
darn push-down automata.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.compiler

=head3 Object Space Thoughts

Stevan Little posted some of his thoughts about how the meta-model can
be built up from run time primitives.  It is pretty neat.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.compiler

=head3 Parrot PMCs within Pugs

Christian Renz wondered how to get at Parrot's PMCs from Pugs. 
Autrijus admitted that that feature was not currently available, but
offered a commit bit and suggested that adding tests would be a good

Google Groups : perl.perl6.compiler

=head2 Parrot

=head3 README.win32

Michael Cartmel fixed a few spelling errors in README.win32.  Joshua
Hoblitt applied the patch.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 parrot-config.imc Documentation

Roger Browne offered a patch fixing documentation in
parrot-config.imc.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Train Parrot to Flex

In the RT clean up, an old ticket has resurfaced.  Parrot needs to be
updated to use flex 2.5.31, which is incompatible with 2.5.4.  Patches

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Dynamism Defeats Static Analysis

Patrick and I had a brief back and forth about detecting PGE
recursion.  The short answer is that it is possible in the static
case, but not in the face of changing rules.  Stupid halting problem,
where did I put my PDA.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 void function return

Will Coleda is tired of special casing void functions and wants C<() =
function()> to be legal in PIR.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Bison >= 1.75c

Joshua Hoblitt noticed that the newer Bisons have slightly different
error messages than older ones.  He felt that we should either
standardize on the newer bison or explicitly declare error messages. 
No official ruling on which...

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 __set_pmc_keyed_*

Patrick needed a way to distinguish C<__set_pmc_keyed_int> from
C<__set_pmc_keyed>.  Leo gave it to him.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 HLL type mappings

Roger Browne wondered how he could set HLL type mappings from PIR. 
Leo said it was not yet implemented or speced.  Roger suggested adding
a few opcodes.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 s/\@(directive)/:$1/g

Jonathan Scott Duff submitted a patch which swapped @directives to
:directives everywhere.  Leo applied most of it in several smaller
patches.  Language maintainers are encouraged to look over this patch
and apply appropriate portions to their languages.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Cygwin Doesn't Smoke

Nick Glencross noticed that cygwin was having troubles submitting
smoke tests.  It appears bzip/gzip related.  He put out a request to
have C<Compress:Bzip2> installed on the smoke server.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Obsolete Win32 Exports

Michael Walter found and removed some obsolete Win32 Exports. 
Jonathan Worthington applied the patch.  Weren't we planning on auto
generating these?

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Name Space is Dead; Long Live Namespace

Matt Diephouse announced the deprecation of get_name_space in favor of

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 split with a string

Jonathan Scott Duff posted a patch to split on strings rather than
regular expressions.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Typo Fixes

Nick Glencross fixed a few typos he found.  Will Coleda applied the patch.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 __delete_keyed_int

Patrick submitted a patch adding C<__delete_keyed_int> support to
PMCs.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Variable-sized Register Frames

Leo warned people that variable sized register frame changes were
starting to hit Parrot.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Leaky Parrot

Alberto Simões is having trouble with Parrot leaking memory and a bad
free.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 -0.0 Issues

Leo posted a patch for comment which updates some of our double
printing code to get around -0.0 issues.  Simon Vogl seemed happy with
the patch, but I don't know if it got applied...

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Execute Permissions for Libraries

Joshua Hoblitt resurrected (and applied) an old patch from Nick
Glencross which sets execute permissions for libraries for some

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Fighting with a Tiger

Alberto Simões was having troubles with Tiger.  Jonathan Worthington
provided a little C wizardry, and Alberto was happy.  He asked to have
the patch applied, but Warnock did instead.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 More Tiger Issues

Alberto Simões found a new build problem on Darwin.  Jonathan
Worthington admits to making the problem and announced its fix.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Debug Segments

Jonathan Worthington announced that he was making progress on his
debug segment work, but would soon half to dive into IMCC.  As a
slight corollary all existing PBCs were invalidated.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 HP-UX mmap

Nick Glencross uncovered a mmap issue on HPUX.  Later, he posted a
patch to fix it.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 TODO - formats rt ticket names

Joshua Hoblitt has been going through RT fixing up tickets to have a
more standardized subject of the form "[TODO]
<subsystem/component/topic> - <summary of task>".  This will probably
make many lives easier.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 HP-UX smoke tests

Nick Glencross skipped a few tests and set up a smoke test for HP-UX. 
Joshua Hoblitt applied the patch.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Patch Resolution Checklist

Joshua Hoblitt suggested a checklist of things to do when resolving a
patch.  Leo thought that perhaps it would be better if RT were
scripted to do it automatically.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Handle Mixed Endian Doubles

Leo opened a todo for ARM mixed-endian doubles, apparently Parrot
doesn't handle them correctly.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Patches Accumulating

Leo warned that he was running low on tuits and that people with
commit bits should apply some of the, now piling up, patches.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Copyright Confusion

Jonathan Worthington had some questions about the copyrights in
Parrot.  Allison Randal provided some cogent answers.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 IO Opcodes

IO opcodes will eventually be removed, thus tickets about them failing
will also be removed eventually.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 parrot_config dependencies

Nick Glencross has been working to relax Parrot's dependency on
parrot_config files.  Leo found a few issues, apparently more work is

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 UUIDs for PBCs

Chip has declared that all pbc files will have a UUID in the header to
allow parrot to avoid leading multiple copies.  It sounds like people
are leaning toward using and MD5 or similar hash algorithm to generate
the UUIDs.  Although I am not sure that any official decision has been

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head3 Parrot.NET

Jonathan Worthington has decided to try translating .NET byte code to
PIR for his thesis.  Now he just needs a catchy name like .PET or

Google Groups : perl.perl6.internals

=head2 Perl 6 Language

There have been some long threads here

=head3 Magical Pairs

Like Lord Farquaad, Ingo Blechschmidt set out to destroy magical
things (in Ingo's case pairs).  Like Farquaad, Ingo stirred up a lot
of controversy (or at least confusion).  Unlike Farquaad, Ingo
succeeded.  Thus, according to Larry "the compiler will be able to
determine at compile time which pairs are intended to be named
arguments and which ones positional parameters".

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Complex Types

Sam Villain noticed that S06 is missing boxed complex types.  Larry
admitted that it was an omission, and Autrijus fixed it.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Multiline Comments

Alfie John wanted to know if parrot would support multiline comments. 
Luke Palmer explained that it would in the form of POD comment blocks
that would not disturb the rest of the documents POD.  Alfie was

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Roles and Trust

Ovid and Piers managed to come to what they felt was a satisfactory
conclusion to their issues with roles and trust, using my multi to do
the dispatch for them.  Piers, the ever summarizer friendly, posted
the results of the #perl6 discussion back to the mailing list. 
Thanks, Piers!

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 C<err> the One Line Try Block

Austin Hastings decided that he liked the idea of having a single line
try/catch called err.  Perhaps it will catch on...

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Closed Classes Meet Religion

chromatic opened a can of worms when he claimed "Closed classes should
not exist".  Naturally this led to arguments about freedom and
commercial viability.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 What the is a submethod good for?

Luke Palmer asked a question that I know was on my mind: "What the is
a submethod good for?".  Damian posted an example that uses submethods
but does not answer the question.  Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon noted that
the use of them in BUILD could be subsumed into more powerful cascade
methods, which I like.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Thoughts on Theory.pm

Dave Whipp, while reading theory.pod, wondered about automatically
testing and assert axioms (like pre and post conditions) on code. 
This led to some discussion about the usefulness of randomly generated

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Inheritance of Class Methods

Stevan Little often makes my head hurt.  I think we should abandon the
whole metaclass system for a nice simple easily understood object
system like Javas.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Role and Class Merger?

Rob Kinyon wondered if Roles and Classes should be merged.  The
consensus was that while they might be very similar internally, they
signalled different intent and thus would remain separate.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Migrating to Perl 6

Yuval Kogman started a migrating to perl 6 page on the pugs wiki.  The
basic intent is to have a book like this come out about the same time
as perl 6, with the wiki page serving as a sort of brainstorming

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Graphical Primitives for Perl 6

Markus Laire wondered if Perl 6 would have any gui primitives in its
core library.  People felt that this would best be farmed out to a
library and people could use whichever library they wanted.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Making Wrong Code Type Wrong

Yuval Kogman posted an analysis of a JoelOnSoftware article about
using code tagging (marking variable names as safe or unsafe
manually).  Seems like a useful idea...

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Selling Perl 6 to Academics

Uri Guttman has the chance to try and sell some CS faculty on Perl 6,
so he asked the list for some good selling points.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 S29 Problem

Aaron Sherman reported that his free time was running low and, as a
result, his S29 work was also slowing.  As a result he opted to narrow
the focus of his work and push on.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 MetaModel Diagrams

In an cruel attempt to make my head hurt more, Stevan Little posted
some pretty diagrams of the metamodel in action.  Don't fall for his
ploy of making things more accessible so he can throw harder stuff at
you.  Resist checking the link.

http://perlcabal.org/~stevan/mm_viz/index.html -- pictures

-- posting
Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Transliterating Using Pairs

Peter Makholm was having issues with the transliterations of ranges do
to stringification issues.  Larry indicated that there => appeared to
be autoquoting its left argument a little to eagerly.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 subclassing associated classes

Darren Duncan wondered how to make his pair of associated classes act
intelligently.  Larry, Stevan Little, Rob Kinyon, and Luke Palmer all
provided suggestions.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Class::Role and Runtime Composition

Tim Bunce wondered if anyone would be able to hack in run time role
composition for the perl5 module Class::Role.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 New MetaModel

Rob Kinyon proposed a new meta model that is much closer to the
prototype paradigm.  Warnock applies.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Module Version Syntax

Nicholas Clark wondered how he could get access to multiple different
versions of a module at once.  This spawned a lot of debate.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Perl 6 Fears

Juerd (probably inspired by some of the aforementioned debate) started
a list of Perl 6 Fears.  The idea being that, given a comprehensive
list of fears, we can efficiently assuage peoples recurring worries.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 Inheritable Class Methods?

Stevan Little proposed that class methods should not be inheritable. 
This sparked a large debate which Stevan apparently lost (by his own

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 C< ++ > should mean C< ++$_ >

Juerd wonderd about making more operations (like C<++>, C<+=>, and
C<x=>) all operate on $_ by default.  Response seems mixed but

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 C< $_ ~~ bool::true >

Ilmari Vacklin noticed an error in S04 centered aroud given/default. 
Luke Palmer and Larry agreed that it was a problem.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 zipping several arrays

Mark Reed wondered how to zip several arrays given that zip was an
infix operator.  Luke Palmer explained that it was actually a listfix
operator like C<,>.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head3 New Class Sigil ¢

Larry announced that there would be a new class sigil, namely ¢.  This
allows you to write functions like C< sub sametype (¢T $x, ¢T $y)
{...}  >.  People generally like the idea but not the charcter.  I
must admit that I agree with people.

Google Groups : perl.perl6.language

=head2 The usual footer

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