Hi Pinkhas, On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 17:47:30 +0200 Pinkhas Nisanov <pink...@nisanov.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org> wrote: > > > Hi Pinkhas, > > > > Hi Shlomi, > > > I didn't fully read the article, but it seems like the conclusion at the > > bottom > > is that Ruby is not dying. > > > > I didn't want to say "ruby is dying", just show that there is some trend to > talk about "dying language". > for me more interesting was read comments, perl again (as very known "dying > language") take there big part. > Ah, I see - well I didn't find it clear from your original message. Now that I look at the article - http://jmoses.co/2013/12/21/is-ruby-dying.html - I see that there are links to the comments on HackerNews on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6959355 . The discussion seems heated and repetitive (but, on the other hand, the title was provocative and hit a nerve). > > because it is faster to write code than to draw it using many mouse > > clicks, and in part because some things still required a certain amount of > > typing and coding. What makes you think this is about to change now of all > > times? > > > Do not agree, when you have some regular task that you run it many, > many times it's may be better to drag and drop some icon and connect > icons by some arrow. I don't know about you, but I still finding myself writing a lot of new code, where this paradigm won't work properly. Perhaps you are right about that being more common in “Enterprise”/CRUD (= Create/Read/Update/Delete) code. > You may say that if you have to repeat some action > so write library and reuse it many times. That what I said to my > coworkers when I tried to convince then do not use talend (only OFL - "one > finger language" :-) that I know). I have too much to say about talend > but do not want waste time for it. > IMHO new generation (I see it on my sons) is less "natural" with "text" > as way to pass information. This sounds suspiciously like the old “Generation is Diminishing” (הדור הולך ופוחת) adage, which like I point in http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/26226/where-was-it-first-said-that-the-generation-is-diminishing-and-diminishing (short URL - http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/26226/ ) was already a common notion when the Scroll of Ecclesiastes (= קהלת) was written, back around 300 B.C., and which the author disagreed with. I am 1977-born and I recall that when I was younger and the Internet was not available (and there were very few channels on Television), most of the kids of my generation did not spend a lot of time and effort reading books as I did, and disliked them. So this is nothing new, and still many people of my generation (and subsequent ones) went on to get Bachelor degrees (where I'm sure they had to read and write a lot of text), and some of them became programmers, who spend a large amount of their time writing code. Also see http://www.robcottingham.ca/cartoon/archive/tldr/ . So this is nothing new, and it's not clear whether everyone can become a programmer (or at least an effective one). See: http://typicalprogrammer.com/sorry-digital-ad-exec-i-probably-dont-want-to-work-for-you/ > For me "text" was almost only way to know > new things and learn. Now "text" go down and replaced by visual > forms of information: movies instead of stories, slides and visual lectures > instead of books, ... > I think that what is faster for you and me will not be faster for new > programmers. This remains to be seen. I believe visual programming is inadequate for anything except the most basic tasks of programming, and also suffer from the syndrome that its tools are written for people who are not as smart as those who develop the tools. (See http://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html and especially http://www.paulgraham.com/trevrejavcov.html and http://www.paulgraham.com/vanlfsp.html .) I've seen many younger people get introduced to programming recently, and hardly anyone I talked with on Freenode said they were using a visual programming tool (although arguably Freenode is a place where hacker-minded people tend to come to), and I have yet to see a visual programming tool gain as much noise as the recently hyped languages (Python, Ruby, Node.js, Google Go-lang, Clojure - none of these are visual programming languages). Naturally, predicting things is hard business, and it is possible we will actually see a sudden emergence of visual programming as a popular problem. (See http://zgp.org/pipermail/linux-elitists/2013-September/013568.html for a post I wrote to a different mailing list mentioning several predictions that did not come true.) So don't hold me liable for this, and don't sell all your stocks in vendors of visual programming tools just because you read what I wrote. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Can-I-SCO-Now/ - "Can I SCO Now?" There is no IGLU cabal! The former cabalists are trying to prove the correctness of a program that proves the correctness of proofs of other programs. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . _______________________________________________ Perl mailing list Perl@perl.org.il http://mail.perl.org.il/mailman/listinfo/perl
