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The following is a condensed and abridged
transcript of remarks by President
Abdurrahman Wahid of Indonesia at a USINDO Open Forum, organized by the United States-Indonesia Society, November 11, 1999, Washington DC President's remarks: The process of modernization is passing through Indonesian society at a demonic rate. We have all kinds of difficulties. There is difficulty in finding the right role for the militant Muslims. They want to name everything in its relation to Islam. That's all right, but Islam should not be used in connection with the State. That is very important. For example, they call me 'secularist,' and secularism is a dirty word there. It's like 'federalism.' We can do it, we can implement it, but we can't say it." (Laughter) "And that's what is not understood by the American people." I know that many important sectors of your society demand that our armed forces should be punished for the past. "I agree with that, and in fact I have done so." Maybe you don't realize that we now have the first civilian defense minister. And we will go further, by separating intelligence activities from the military. I have named military men who are politically minded in the cabinet instead of in the armed forces [Military officers named to civilian positions now must resign from the military]. General Bambang Yudoyono protested to me that he would like to be in the armed forces, but I said no. [He was named minister of mining]. It is not easy to deal with the armed forces. The road to democracy is not easy for them. They have to accept changes, as I do. I inherited from my predecessor that everywhere I go I have military people with me. (Laughs) Wearing ties, shoes, these are all difficult things for me (Laughs). But anyway, I have done so. But the one thing I cling to is the idea of the supremacy of the civilians over the military. This is very important, but in order for that to take place, we must do it in our way. The problem is not easy. For example, the problems in Ternate just two days ago. From all the reports I got from the NU [Nahdlatul Ulama], not from the government, was that there are people from Jakarta, mainly in the military, who participated in creating that disturbance. So I have to be careful. So I phoned from the plane to the national police chief to please announce to the press that according to me the police must take immediate action to capture the men responsible for that riot in Ternate. If they resist the efforts of the police then the police must open fire directly. This is very, very strong, but I have done this. It's not easy for us, but anyway we can do that. Please remember that we are in a difficult position. It is difficult to make a general policy. If you read that the government cannot comply with [international demands] then you know the reason. We have to go step by step. I asked the NGOs to continue to demonstrate against the military…..I regard the voices of the NGOs in the United States as very important, to show the whole nation how to proceed in the future. It was recommended to me to appoint Professor Nurcholish Madjid as chairman of the Supreme Advisory Council. I refused to do that. I want him to be outside the government, to be the voice of conscience. He is too valuable for us [to be limited to speaking inside the government]. Question : What role is there for the United States in Indonesia's economic recovery and democratization process? President: There are two things to remind ourselves. First, that economically, we are in shambles. We can get up only by the help of others, including the Americans. I will stress this in my talks with President Clinton tomorrow. Second, investment in Indonesia should be within the framework of good ethics. I know the western countries will provide this kind of investment. There are many kinds of investments, but in the long run, some will be detrimental to our interests. We have to remember the ethics of openness, of rule by law, of democracy in essence that should be included in investments in Indonesia for the long run. Question : What about the problems in Aceh? President: The majority of the Acehnese don't want to separate. I have been given a title in Aceh, similar to "father." It is the highest title, but I am from outside Aceh. Most Acehnese consider people from Jakarta as enemies, but wonder of wonders, I am a friend. This is important. In a referendum, I am sure, I am convinced, the people will vote to stay within Indonesia. But the military see a danger in that. The Dato Sumsri (sp?) Juned of Kedah in Malaysia said to General Wiranto we should not believe in Tungku Hasantiro. This is a misunderstanding about Aceh. Whatever he was in the past, Tungku Hasantiro has great influence in Aceh now. We must discuss with him the future of Aceh. I know he wants Aceh to be "different" than the rest of Indonesia, to have an independent source of income, to live by the Shariah, Islamic law. I sent a message to him, through an emissary, a student leader. I said we cannot say political federalism, because that idea is discredited. So we cannot go back now in theory, but in practice we can do that. (Laughter). By following what ex-president Habibie said, "full autonomy." By using another word. We have offered revenue sharing: 75 percent for Aceh and 25 percent for Jakarta. As for the Shariah, I asked, "What does that mean?" He said through the emissary it means banning gambling, prostitution, and liquor. I said okay, but don't use these big words "Islamic law." It makes people in other parts of Indonesia fearful. Why not just call it Daerah Aceh Istemewa, Special Province of Aceh. He said yes okay, we will do that. Question: You have included almost all elements in the cabinet. Is there a role for a loyal opposition? President: Opposition means two things for me. One is that you criticize government policy. If that happens, I will comment. This criticism is based on policy. But sometimes opposition is understood as opposing the government at all costs. So you have to have opposition within the government system, not outside it. So, as you say, there is no opposing force in the government right now. So I hope to encourage the (parliament) representatives to have a criticizing voice in the things that they see as wrong. I look forward to the real opposition, and that is the opposition that is dictated by the issues. Question: Do you have a message for the American people for an agenda for the United States in helping Indonesia? President: Please help us in attaining good government; honest, open, accountable for its actions. For the past decades we were controled by a government that looked out for its own interests instead of the interests of the people. "Help us to be honest." Question: There have been efforts in Congress to restrict military, economic and other types of assistance to Indonesia. These are connected to the events in East Timor and the desire of some to bring to justice the people who are responsible for some of the actions there. What would you say to these members of Congress? President: First, identify those congressmen. Invite them to breakfast. Talk openly about their objections. What we can do , we will do. What we cannot do, we say so. Second, regarding East Timor: We already have accepted the results of the plebiscite in which the emergence of a new state will take place in several months. I have asked our people to be friendly with them [East Timorese]. In this context, Xanana Gusmao will come to Jakarta soon. I said to the press that Megawati and I will meet him at the airport. But as he is not a president, my protocol people said "don't do that," but I don't care. But Xanana Gusmao is a friend from a long time ago. When he was in prison I was impressed by him. I visited him. I was impressed by him to such an extent that I said to him that in my view you should not be independent, because then I could make you foreign minister of Indonesia (Laughter). I hope he will win the election and rule Timor. Apart from that, there is the problem of refugees. At last count there are some 200,000 refugees still in West Timor. The separatists [he probably meant integrationists], the Aitarak people, intimidated them. It must be taken into account that many of those people cannot go back to East Timor because of their intimidation. So I have to grope in the dark for a solution. The program for those refugees who desire to go back should proceed undisturbed. This I have already said many times to my military people, but between saying and doing is a very vast difference. But I like to persist in doing so. In a few weeks the rainy season will begin and our tents will not be able to cover them. It's better for them to go back to East Timor, because we cannot take care of them. I said to the Singaporeans, the Thais, and to the Philippines: please help us in repatriating them peacefully; take care of our refugees because it's difficult for us alone to settle the matter. I hope this can be understood by the Australians, that by voting "no" in the plebiscite, the views of John Howard are prevailing. I am glad that at the end of this month the foreign minister Alexander Downer will come to Jakarta and we can meet and discuss those things. It's better for John Howard to differentiate between being an extension of western civilization and hating Asian policy. A vast difference. Question: What about the case against the Soehartos? President: It's not easy, the Soeharto question. On one hand, we have to take care of the law. The law says that if he violates everything, he has to be punished. But on the other hand he is so rich he can pay for everything, including those rebellions. My solution is that I have instructed the Attorney General to examine him whether he is guilty or not. Once he is convicted by a court, we will pardon him, because he was our president. That will apply also to Pak Habibie. But not the rest of his family. This is very important. I told Attorney General Darusman: not the family and not the cronies. We have to be careful about this, because he was our president. This is not understood by our friends outside Indonesia. He is richer than the state even! (Laughter). He can pay for those rebellions. But anyway, if you look at the formal law, maybe he is guilty of nothing. He stashed all the money abroad in the name of his cronies. Question : After speaking with us for two hours, you are surely not the 'frail Muslim cleric' portrayed in the press. What is your strategy for dealing with corruption? President: There are several points to remember. First, companies and other groups should operate by competition and open management. Second, we have to look into the banking system because there is the center of everything. We have to be careful not to let those companies that are bad to continue. But also we should not punish the good companies. They have to develop further, to develop Indonesia. Third, we have to be consistent. I received a fax today that a relative of someone in my cabinet is [undertaking an inappropriate business venture], something in this "management by family thing." This minister's family is about to take advantage of his name. Whenever a minister is related to a case as asserted by the Attorney General, then he has to be inactive in his job, so it will be an interim minister to do his role. If he is found by the court to be wrong then he should resign from his ministership. I have already identified three people in the cabinet. I am adamant in this. Otherwise all actions will have no meaning." Question: How will you create a strong private sector? President: Your suggestion is a dangerous one. Why? Because it implies the initiative will be from the government. The government should not create but should regulate not to initiate. Action should be taken by society itself. We will assist. I am a patient man; I can wait. My condition only is honesty and openness. |
