Done. #4092 Thanks, Dave
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 5:57 AM Dave Page <dp...@pgadmin.org> wrote: > If someone wants to log a feature request for this, it'll probably get > done relatively soon. It's not an unreasonable request for the View/Edit > data tool (obviously not the Query Tool mode, as discussed). > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 6:36 PM Dave Caughey <caugh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think you're confusing my point. >> >> You're right that you never want to add an *implicit* default to the >> order clause. That would be changing the SQL standard which, as you've >> noted, would be really bad. >> >> But, we're talking about a tool that constructs *explicit* queries in >> order to display the data in the table... I.e., when you right-click on a >> table in pgAdmin and select "View/Edit Data...", pgAdmin is fully in >> control of whether it generates either >> >> SELECT * FROM public.sometable >> >> >> or >> >> SELECT * FROM public.sometable ORDER BY somecolumn ASC >> >> >> In the second case, there is no *implicit* default... it's very >> explicitly specified, and does not in anyway change/contradict the SQL >> standard. It's just the tool stepping in and doing what I end up having to >> do manually. every. frickin'. time. >> >> Another UI concept that could be applied here is to simply remember my >> previous settings, on a table-by-table basis. E.g., if I do a "View/Edit >> Data..." once, and *explicitly* change the ORDER BY clause to be "ORDER BY >> price DESC" then it's very a very smart thing to add to SELECT the next >> time I do a "View/Edit Data..." on that table. And if I subsequently >> change to be "ORDER BY qty ASC" then that becomes a smart default to >> continue to use on subsequent "View/Edit Data..." queries. Or, if I >> actually remove the default ORDER BY, then it's smart thing to remember >> that choice and continue to use no ORDER BY. >> >> But certainly, if the user explicitly indicates that they *do* want an >> ORDER BY clause, then continuously defaulting to no ORDER BY clause each >> time they do a "View/Edit Data...", on the same table, is arbitrarily >> picking a behaviour that you clearly know that the user doesn't prefer. >> Why not just do for the user the same thing they explicitly asked you to do >> for last time? From a UX perspective, this approach requires the least >> amount of interaction by the user in order to get what exactly they want. >> >> And from a UX design perspective, the advantage of the this approach is >> that it doesn't require yet-another option to support/document. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:59 PM Doug Easterbrook <d...@artsman.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I’m disagreeing with dave. >>> >>> to be clear. you NEVER want to add an implicit default to the order >>> clause. EVER. >>> >>> Postgres returns data in the order that it returns it (sql standard) >>> unless you specify otherwise. >>> >>> the python mantra: it is better to be EXPLICIT than IMPLICIT. >>> >>> If you do not provide an explicit sort order and rely on some implicit >>> ordering, then your code will break in the future if you are relying on the >>> order from the engine… and its harder to find problems if pgadmin has >>> different behaviour than sending the same query through psql or the >>> postgres libraries. >>> >>> final point is that PGadmin just gives the database your query. if >>> Pgadmin altered my SQL code for me, I’d be angry since i’ve wanted to know >>> what order postgres felt it wanted to return the data. >>> >>> its not pgadmin's job to fix my mistakes. it my job to fix my mistakes. >>> >>> >>> do I agree that people want a natural order in a gui. Absolutely >>> but you need to be explicit which one. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Doug Easterbrook* >>> *Arts Management Systems Ltd.* >>> mailto:d...@artsman.com <d...@artsman.com> >>> http://www.artsman.com >>> Phone (403) 650-1978 >>> >>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:24 AM, Dave Caughey <caugh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Yeah, but that's just what the spec says about how the SELECT works. >>> It's not a statement about how a user interface should display information. >>> >>> Presenting unordered information is basically guaranteed to be never >>> what the user wants. In this case, the user has to *almost always* >>> edit the query to add a sensible "order by" clause. >>> >>> On the other hand, picking a default column (e.g., PK, or insertion >>> order) is probably going to be the desirable behaviour most of the time >>> (but rarely, not). In this case, the user has *almost never* edit the >>> query to remove/alter the default "order by" clause. >>> >>> So you've got a UI decision of doing something that'll be "right" (i.e., >>> what the user wants) most of the time, or "wrong" (i.e., what the user >>> doesn't want) most of the time. This is an easy win. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 9:19 AM Wim Bertels <wim.bert...@ucll.be> wrote: >>> >>>> Janus schreef op vr 15-03-2019 om 12:20 [+0100]: >>>> > In pgAdmin 3, an implicit default order by primary key is used when >>>> > displaying data without an otherwise stated order. This is not the >>>> > case in pgAdmin 4. The order seems somewhat arbitrary and the >>>> > following statement from this site is definitely not true: "When you >>>> > query data from a table, PostgreSQL returns the rows in the order >>>> > that they were inserted into the table." >>>> >>>> Hallo Janus, >>>> >>>> this standard behaviour, as described by the ISO standard >>>> :: ie unless you specify an ORDER BY clause, the order can be anything, >>>> like a (unordered) set; >>>> >>>> the example of "the way there were inserted", this might often be the >>>> case, but it's not a rule >>>> more background: see planner, shared mem and cache >>>> >>>> > >>>> > I do understand that some order of course exists, but from a >>>> > human perspective it would make sense that default ordering is by PK, >>>> > unless stated otherwise. In PgAdmin 4, is it possible to set a >>>> > default ordering, at least so that displaying a table's contents >>>> > using the "View Data" button, i.e. the query being run is altered >>>> > from "SELECT oid, * FROM public.mytable" to "SELECT oid, * FROM >>>> > public.mytable ORDER BY <primary key(s)>"? >>>> >>>> i only see the filter/sort option >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Thanks! >>>> -- >>>> mvg, >>>> Wim Bertels >>>> -- >>>> Lector >>>> UC Leuven-Limburg >>>> -- >>>> Let me take you a button-hole lower. >>>> -- William Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost" >>>> >>>> >>> > > -- > Dave Page > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com > Twitter: @pgsnake > > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company >
