Ok, I've done this three times on 3 different machines, and get it wrong each time... I go through the INSTALL docs, compile, install, run initdb and then get: """... File '/usr/local/pgsql/data/PG_VERSION' does not exist or no read permission.""" It's not the latter, it's missing... it's not in data/template1 either. And if I fake it (put the X.Y version in the file), I still am missing the pg_user tables... I've tried this 3-4 times on the same install as well... no go. This is on PostgreSQL 6.5.3 just downloaded. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli Python Powered Digital Creations, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.digicool.com ************