On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 9:47 PM, Edson Richter <edsonrich...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Em 14/12/2012 12:21, Merlin Moncure escreveu: > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Edson Richter <edsonrich...@hotmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Em 13/12/2012 20:10, Merlin Moncure escreveu: >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Edson Richter < >>>> edsonrich...@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has anyone created a XML Schema that would represent PostgreSQL >>>>> database >>>>> with all (or at least, major) structures? >>>>> >>>> no -- furthermore, why would you want to? what would be the consumer >>>> of this 'schema'? >>>> >>>> merlin >>>> >>>> >>>> I was wondering to create a tool for diagramming and database forward >>> engineering. >>> >>> There are already few tools around. >>> >>> If you know a good diagramming tool able to database diff and forward >>> engineering (with "ALTER ...", not "DROP and CREATE"), I would like to >>> know >>> (by today I do use one commercial tool that is feature incomplete: >>> DbWrench). >>> >>> Among others, I've considered also: >>> - Sybase PowerDesigner: too expensive, does not support PostgreSQL >>> 9.1/9.2, >>> so is not appropriate. >>> - ERWin: too expensive, and doesn't have proper support for PostgreSQL >>> 9.1/9.2. >>> - NaviCat: is feature extensive, but they don't have real change scripts >>> (are drop/create). >>> - ModelRight: it's "change script" is not change at all (is just another >>> drop/create tool). >>> - TORA and other open source tools are really incomplete. >>> - TOAD is too confuse for simple day-by-day work. >>> >>> Most of these tools or doesn't support PostgreSQL features (are too >>> generic), or doesn't do real forward engineer (are only able to >>> drop/create >>> objects, not alter them), or cannot deal with partial diagrams (I can't >>> deal >>> with only one diagram with hundred of tables at once). >>> >> Years ago I decided that the only way to do forward engineering was to >> capture the changes I make to development databases in scripts and to >> manually apply those scripts for release management. This process >> works and like you I've found the various commercial tools to have >> various weaknesses. So for forward engineering I say: quit using >> tools and write scripts. >> > > Yes, I've developed special tasks to update database automatically based > on schema version. But this becomes a hard work very quick (because system > grows too fast and we don't have dedicated DBA to deal with all those > changes). > > > >> I'm also like you amazed how poor the various database diagramming >> tools are -- they all suck. Case Studio used to be pretty good back >> in the day but I wouldn't recommend it today. My personal take on >> ERD/diagramming is that: >> >> *) diagram generation should be automatic and useful >> > > Yes - also, tool must have multi diagram support, in order we can organize > different views of the structure. > > > >> *) human input to adjust the layout should not be required (every time >> I move the stupid boxes and straighten the stupid lines I feel like >> I'm finger painting) >> > > Yes, I also hate that. DBWrench (tool I use today) has no auto layout of > any kind, and I feel like a fool arranging tables when I'm supposed to do > something that add value to our customers. > > > >> *) diagram tool should follow database changes and adjust the diagram >> accordingly >> > > Yes - database diff between database and model design with true change > scripts. If I change the name of a column, I do expect "Alter table XXX > rename column YYYY to OOO" (or something like that, I can't remember the > syntax right now). > > > *) diagram output should be standard html (only) without requiring >> tool to log in and adjust diagram >> > > I don't really care about output - SVG would be excellent, because it > scales well and will print nicely. > I can tell that a data dictionary with diagramming output would be enough. > If I can edit the data dictionary and system keep track of all changes, > would be enough for me. > If PgAdmin would have the ability to maintain a data dictionary that is > not the database itself, and plus the feature to "synchronize with > database" (which would be any PostgreSQL database registered) would be > optimal for me. > > > >> I've come around to the point of view that this is an unfilled niche >> in the industry. Furthermore, as long as scope is kept reasonably >> down, this is not a very difficult project. So I've decided (along >> with Atri) to give it a shot. Iniitial plans is to do plain html >> dumps directly out of the database and use GraphVis to document >> dependency flow. >> > > That was my thought - if it's not too expensive, I can do something. > That's my question regarding XML, would be very easy for me to work with it > using Java (my preferred language, which I use on daily basis). > XML would work well with versioning systems, and is quite easy to "diff" > etc. > > If there is anything I can help, let me know. > Hi, At the moment, the project is in prototyping phase. We are planning to dump HTML from the database. Once it is ready for testing, we will let you know how you can help(hopefully with testing!) Regards, Atri > > merlin > > > -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/**mailpref/pgsql-general<http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general> -- Regards, Atri *l'apprenant*
