On 2013-12-29 19:57:31 -0800, Peter Geoghegan wrote: > On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Heikki Linnakangas > <hlinnakan...@vmware.com> wrote: > >> My position is not based on a gut feeling. It is based on carefully > >> considering the interactions of the constituent parts, plus the > >> experience of actually building a working prototype. > > > > > > I also carefully considered all that stuff, and reached a different > > conclusion. Plus I also actually built a working prototype (for some > > approximation of "working" - it's still a prototype). > > Well, clearly you're in agreement with me about unprincipled > deadlocking. That's what I was referring to here.
Maybe you should describe what you mean with "unprincipled". Sure, the current patch deadlocks, but I don't see anything fundamental, unresolvable there. So I don't understand what the word unprincipled means in that sentence.. > Andres recently seemed less convinced of this than in > the past , but I'd like to hear your thoughts. Not really, I just don't have the time/energy to fight for it (aka write a POC) at the moment. I still think any form of promise tuple, be it index, or heap based, it's a much better, more general, approach than yours. That doesn't preclude other approaches from being workable though. > I didn't say that locking index pages is obviously better, and I > certainly didn't say anything about what you've done being > fundamentally flawed. I said that I "have limited enthusiasm for > expanding the modularity violation that exists within the btree AM". > Based on what Andres has said in the recent past on this thread about > the current btree code, that "in my opinion, bt_check_unique() doing > [locking heap and btree buffers concurrently] is a bug that needs > fixing" , can you really blame me? Uh. But that was said in the context of *your* approach being flawed. Because it - at that time, I didn't look at the newest version yet - extended the concept of holding btree page locks across external operation to far much more code, even including user defined code!. And you argued that that isn't a problem using _bt_check_unique() as an argument. I don't really see why your patch is less of a modularity violation than Heikki's POC. It's just a different direction. > > PS. In btreelock_insert_on_dup_v5.2013_12_28.patch, the language used in the > > additional text in README is quite difficult to read. Too many difficult > > sentences and constructs for a non-native English speaker like me. I had to > > look up "concomitantly" in a dictionary and I'm still not sure I understand > > that sentence :-). +1 on the simpler language front as a fellow non-native speaker. Personally, the biggest thing I think you could do in favor of your position, is trying to be a bit more succinct in the mailing list discussions. I certainly fail at times at that as well, but I really try to work on it... Greetings, Andres Freund -- Andres Freund http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (email@example.com) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers