On 03/03/2014 10:39 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote:
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Andrew Dunstan <and...@dunslane.net> wrote:
My aim for 9.4, given constraints of both the development cycle and my time
budget, has been to get jsonb to a point where it has equivalent
functionality to json, so that nobody is forced to say "well I'll have to
use json because it lacks function x." For the processing functions, i.e.
those that don't generate json from non-json, this should be true with
what's proposed. The jsonb processing functions should be about as fast as,
or in some cases significantly faster than, their json equivalents. Parsing
text input takes a little longer (surprisingly little, actually), and
reserializing takes significantly longer - I haven't had a chance to look
and see if we can improve that. Both of these are more or less expected
results.
Okay, that's fine. I'm sure that jsonb has some value without
hstore-style indexing. That isn't really in question. What is in
question is why you would choose to give up on those capabilities.



Who has given up?

I did as much as I could given the time constraints I mentioned. That's the way Postgres works. People do what they can.



For 9.5 I would hope that we have at least the equivalent of the proposed
hstore classes.
But the equivalent code to the proposed hstore operator classes is
*exactly the same* C code. The two types are fully binary coercible in
the patch, so why delay? Why is that additional step appreciably
riskier than adopting jsonb? I don't see why the functions associated
with the operators that comprise, say, the gin_hstore_ops operator
class represent much additional risk, assuming that jsonb is itself in
good shape. For example, the new hstore_contains() looks fairly
innocuous compared to much of the code you are apparently intent on
including in the first cut at jsonb. Have I missed something? Why are
those operators riskier than the operators you are intent on
including?


You are really jumping at conclusions as to what's in my head, conclusions that are not justified by anything I have said.

Who said they were riskier? I certainly didn't.

Of course the operators would be the same. We could have them today, by migrating the exisiting code into core and making the hstore operators use that code instead. I could probably do it in about a day (if I had a day to spare). I was actually rather expecting that they would have been put there for the jsonb type when Teodor moved some code so we could have a jsonb type. But since he didn't we find ourselves where we are today.

If that's what it will take to get agreement I will try to make it happen.



If it is true that you think that's a significant additional risk, a
risk too far, then it makes sense that you'd defer doing this. I would
like to know why that is, though, since I don't see it.


I don't, as I said. This whole line of speculation has me quite puzzled.


Speaking of
missing operator classes, I'm pretty sure that it's ipso facto
unacceptable that there is no default btree operator class for the
type jsonb:

[local]/postgres=# \d+ bar
                          Table "public.bar"
  Column | Type  | Modifiers | Storage  | Stats target | Description
--------+-------+-----------+----------+--------------+-------------
  i      | jsonb |           | extended |              |
Has OIDs: no

[local]/postgres=# select * from bar order by i;
ERROR:  42883: could not identify an ordering operator for type jsonb
LINE 1: select * from bar order by i;
                                    ^
HINT:  Use an explicit ordering operator or modify the query.
LOCATION:  get_sort_group_operators, parse_oper.c:221
Time: 6.424 ms
[local]/postgres=# select distinct i from bar;
ERROR:  42883: could not identify an equality operator for type jsonb
LINE 1: select distinct i from bar;
                         ^
LOCATION:  get_sort_group_operators, parse_oper.c:226
Time: 6.457 ms



Well, the trouble is that the only one that would make sense is one that did in effect "order by i::json", since it would be weird to have these different. That might make the ordering slow, but would be easy enough to add.


But that's really just a start. Frankly, I think we need to
think a lot harder about how we want to be able to index this sort of data.
The proposed hstore operators appear to me to be at best just scratching the
surface of that. I'd like to be able to index jsonb's #> and #>> operators,
for example. Unanchored subpath operators could be an area that's
interesting to implement and index.
I'm sure that's true, but it's not our immediate concern. We need to
think very hard about it to get everything we want, but we also need
to think somewhat harder about it in order to get even a basic jsonb
type committed.


I think you need to be more accepting of the fact that Postgres development is frequently incremental. Nothing that's been proposed would prevent future development of the type AFAICT. Enums took us two or three releases to get to where we are. Arrays took longer. Even a smallish feature like CSV import is still being tweaked about seven releases after it was introduced.


cheers

andrew



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