On 2016-04-05 05:53:53 +0200, Petr Jelinek wrote: > On 04/04/16 17:15, Andres Freund wrote: > > > >>* Robust sequence decoding and replication. If you were following the later > >>parts of that discussion you will've seen how fun that's going to be, but > >>it's the simplest of all of the problems. > > > >Unconvinced. People used londiste and slony for years without that, and > >it's not even remotely at the top of the list of problems with either. > > > > Londiste and Slony also support physical failover unlike logical decoding > which is the main point of this discussion, lets not forget that.
Sure. But that level of failover isn't all that hard to implement. I just want to reiterate: I'm not against failover slots per-se, or against timeline following, or something like that. I think it's just getting the priorities backwards. Until there's basic features available, you're going to have a hard time fighting for more advanced features. : That said, I don't agree with the approach chosen so far, but that's just a matter of discussion. > > > >>* Robust, seamless DDL replication, so things don't just break randomly. > >>This makes the other points above look nice and simple by comparison. > > > >We're talking about a system which involves logical decoding. Whether > >you have failover via physical rep or not, doesn't have anything to do > >with this point. > It is if you are insisting on using logical rep as solution for failover. How on earth does this follow? If your replicas don't do DDL propagation, doing so on the primary -> new primary, it surely isn't a prerequisite. I agree DDL rep is pretty crucial, but this argument here isn't that. > I also don't buy your argument that it's unsafe to use timeline following on > logical decoding on replica. I'm not saying that generally. I'm saying that you can't realistically do it safely with just the timeline following patch, as committed. > You can always keep master from moving too far > ahead by other means (even if you just use dummy slot which is only used for > this purpose, yes ugly I know). Yes, that somewhat works. And I think this is actually kinda the design "failover" slots should take instead. > If we got failover slots into 9.6 it would > be better but that does not look realistic at this point. I don't think that > current design for failover slots is best possible - I think failover slots > should be created on replica and send their status up to the master which > would then take them into account when calculating oldest needed catalog > xmin and lsn (simple way of doing that would be to add this to feedback > protocol and let physical slot to keep the xmin/lsn as well) Yes, that's not too far away from what I'm thinking of. If we do it right that also solves the important problems for decoding on a standby. > but that does not mean timeline following isn't good thing on it's own > (not to mention that iterative development is a thing). Yes, I'm not saying that. The reason it scares me is that it's not a particularly carefully reviewed patch, and the intended usage as described by Craig. We most definitely need timeline following, independent of failover slots. Most importantly for decoding on a standby. Greetings, Andres Freund -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (email@example.com) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers