On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Heikki Linnakangas <hlinn...@iki.fi> wrote: > Regardless of the number of tapes, the memory used for the tape buffers, > while building the initial runs, is wasted. It's not entirely wasted when > you have multiple merge passes, because without the buffer you need to read > the last partial page back into memory, when you start to output the next > run on it. But even in that case, I believe that memory would be better used > for the quicksort, to create larger runs.
Okay. Somehow, I was confused on that point. > Yeah, there might be value in having a cap, because operating the merge heap > becomes more expensive when it becomes larger. Mainly because of cache > misses. We should perhaps have a limit on the size of the merge heap, and > use the same limit for the replacement selection. Although, the heap behaves > slightly differently during replacement selection: During replacement > selection, new values added to the heap tend to go to the bottom of the > heap, but during merge, new values tend to go close to the top. The latter > pattern incurs fewer cache misses. I don't think it makes sense to bring replacement selection into it. I'd vote for completely killing replacement selection at this point. The merge heap work committed a few weeks back really weakened the case for it, a case that the 9.6 work left hanging by a thread to begin with. In general, having a replacement selection heap that is larger can only be helpful when that means that we have enough "juggling capacity" to reorder things into one (or relatively few) long runs. For RS, the optimal size of the heap is good enough to do any juggling that is possible to make runs as long as possible, but no larger. The default replacement_sort_tuples setting (150,000) seems very high to me, considered from that point of view, actually. Multiple passes just don't seem to be that bad on modern hardware, in the cases where they still happen. You don't see a big drop when tuning down work_mem to just below the threshold at which the sort can complete in one pass. And, multi-pass sorts still won't happen very often in practice. Now, this work of yours risks slowing down multiple pass sorts when that does happen, but I think it could still be worth it. > But that's orthogonal to the wasting-memory aspect of this. Even if a we > have a cap of 100, it's good to not spend memory for the tape buffers of > those 100 tapes, when building the initial runs. You're right about that. >> Okay. But, you haven't actually addressed the problem with non-trivial >> amounts of memory being logically allocated ahead of time for no good >> reason -- you've only address the constant factor (the overhead >> per-tape). > > > I thought I did. Can you elaborate? > > Are you referring to the fact that the array of LogicalTapes is still > allocated ahead of time, with size maxTapes? True, it'd be nice to allocate > the LogicalTape structs only when needed. But that's peanuts, compared to > the tape buffers. Is that's all that is left to remove, in terms of wasteful USEMEM() overhead? Then, yeah, I guess I am just talking about "peanuts", plus the more significant issue of merge heap CPU cache efficiency. >> I can definitely see value in refactoring, to make that code less >> complicated -- I just don't think it's justified by the amount of >> memory that is wasted on tapes. > > > Ok, good. I think we're in agreement on doing this, then, even if we don't > agree on the justification :-). Agreed. :-) > Yeah. I'm not sure how partitioning and all that would be done here. But I'm > prettty sure this simpler logtape.c code is easier to work with, for > partitioning too. That's my intuition, too. Obviously my thoughts on partitioning are still very hand-wavy, but I'm pretty sure that partitioning is the future for the parallelization of sorting in the executor. Pushing *everything* down is more important than actually having the sort be as fast as possible there. -- Peter Geoghegan -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (email@example.com) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers