On 31 Oct 2013, at 10:15, kilon alios <[email protected]> wrote:

> Wow so much work to add an instance variable ? 
> 
> In python is as simple as 
> 
> MyClass.newVariable = 30
> 
> I always assumed Pharo was very similar. 

The discussion is about source code management.
Of course this is very easy in Pharo.

> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Clément Bera <[email protected]> wrote:
> Basically here we discuss how to introduce in Pharo stateful class extension 
> and stateful traits. I like these features a lot because it means I would be 
> able to reuse the same class differently depending on the context and the 
> surrounding classes. But if we overuse that we will definitely go into chaos. 
> Martin tried in Mist and he concluded that he should have class composition 
> instead of stateful traits / class extension. 
> 
> For now the common way to add extra instance variable is: you add an extra 
> instance variable named 'properties' in the main class which needs to be 
> committed on the other package, then in the class extension you initialize 
> this varable lazily to a dictionary, and to use extra instance variable, you 
> store/read them in the properties dictionary by overriding the getter/setter 
> method. You can look at the refactoring browser AST which is implemented like 
> that. This way is nice because it is easily optimizable by slots (even if we 
> have not done it yet) and you only add 1 instance variable to the main class 
> whereas you can add an infinite number of instance variables.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 2013/10/31 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>
> I completely disagree with this point of view :).
> 
> We should assume an open world, not a close one. From this point of view, any 
> part of the system should be extensible by anyone. In most other languages I 
> know, it is not even possible to extend easily a class with new 
> functionality. In Pharo we can, and we know it is a powerful mechanism. It is 
> not the responsibility of the base class to know what extensions are out 
> there and protect against them. Just like with subclassing, It is in the 
> responsibility of the extender.
> 
> We should be able to do the same with state as well. Without this mechanism, 
> we are forced to put in place clunky dictionary-based mechanism to support 
> state extension. Essentially, any white-box framework does that. For example, 
> Morphic does that, FAMIX and Roassal do that, too (and yes, this is not a bad 
> thing).
> 
> We need this mechanism in the environment, and if I understand Slots 
> correctly, now we have first class support for it. This also means that 
> overrides will be easier to deal with, too. Of course, overrides can induce 
> headaches from time to time, but we should treat these headaches with proper 
> tools, not by forbidding the world to extend.
> 
> And if we are at it, we should also be able to extend a class with Traits, 
> too.
> 
> Cheers,
> Doru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Camillo Bruni <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> On 2013-10-30, at 22:36, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > I don't think there's something to fix.
> > You cannot 'extend' classes belonging to other package in any other way
> > than adding extension methods.
> > Allowing extension of ivars or any other vars by foreign package
> > is road to nowhere.
> >
> > I would not like if shape of my kernel classes depends on what packages i 
> > load
> > or in what order i loaded them.
> > To me it is clear that if one needs to add/remove/modify instance variables
> > of some class, those changes should belong to the package containing that 
> > class,
> > not some random package.
> 
> Exactly, it would cause the same problem as we have with overrides in 
> monticello
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"
> 
> 


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