Sorry sebastian but you are wrong :) and start to be ready for changes in the 
future too or stay with Pharo 2.0
Look at the Pharo Motto.

Stef

On 01 Feb 2014, at 13:32, Sebastian Sastre <[email protected]> wrote:

> 
>>> How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something 
>>> that usually people do not need to know.
>> I don’t give any lectures to students but I often try to „teach“ Smalltalk 
>> to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times.
>> Typically „experienced“ software developers think about themselves as being 
>> experts in object orientation and programming languages,
>> even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. „Teaching“ them about 
>> Smalltalk’s idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost
>> impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) 
>> and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students.
> 
> +1  on this
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them 
>>> twice.
>> Newcomers don’t use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide 
>> them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but
>> „oldtimers“ need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic 
>> typing and Smalltalk. I don’t like to obey to artificial rules that only
>> put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do 
>> wrong sometimes.
>> 
>> At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem 
>> at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) 
>> over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have 
>> parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things 
>> to collect…
>> So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured 
>> and hidden! 
>> 
> 
> If you don’t see features you don’t know what the machine can do for you. 
> 
> Obscuring things is sometimes a good design strategy, but here there is a 
> well known artefact breaking tradition here, that isn’t something light. And 
> the proposed alternative design is far to be better (read: have been proven 
> itself worth of its added burden of breaking that tradition)
> 
> Students shouldn’t be underestimated they can handle ignoring what they don’t 
> need, no problem
> 
>>> 
>>> We just need a full class template menu item.
>> Yes, but it’s not there yet but this change already took away some power 
>> without giving me back something in exchange!
>> I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also 
>> don’t use class variables that often) and I don’t see why students
>> shouldn’t be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from 
>> students they won’t see it, won’t get curious and in the end will only
>> learn the boring parts of Smalltalk…
>> 
> Yeah, you’re not the only one with that perception.
> 
> This move sucks. It allegedly solved a problem that allegedly happens to some 
> by creating a problem for almost everybody.
> 
> It’s a half-ass non-solution
> 
> Do you really love cleaning that up?
> 
> Go ahead and do it after you prove to us (non-newcomers, so non-early 
> adopters but conservatives users) that your alternative not only is clean but 
> rocks (more convenient is some other way). 
> 
> The second part of your homework on this design decision was completely 
> ignored so expecting it to be loved (popular) is unrealistic
> 
> And by not doing that you just added a problem where there was none
> 
> Not willing to do that second part?
> 
> Then don’t fix what isn’t broken.
> 

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