1. Creating separate powerful organisation that will move in one direction will give good results in a longer time, but the beginning will be tuff.
2. I wouldn’t call it a “Pharo” organisation. e.g. Amber is cool too, no? In fact it should be some group that want’s to do rings for real and not just state that they are writing a code in Smalltalk. I can contribute to that a bit. Uko On 08 Feb 2014, at 12:52, kilon alios <[email protected]> wrote: > Personally I have to agree with you Stef. > > As a lawyer myself, keeping things separate is my number one rule when I work > with legal cases and it is what I advice most of my clients doings. Remove > any room for doubt. > > Pharo has chosen to follow its own path. It does not even have the goal to be > a Smalltalk evnironment and language but rather a Smalltalk inspired one as > it is clearly stated on the front page of the website. > > So if Pharo is to be a separate entity entirely from smalltalk languages > doing its own independent thing then it makes very good sense to me to have > its own GSOC part. It also a very good idea from a management perspective, > legal perspective, financial etc. > Keeping things separate will clear up also any confusion what Pharo is and > what it stands for. No conspiracy theories and no suspicion. This already > has worked very well in favor of Pharo, I don't see any problem with it. > > I also think because of Pharo popularity it would be more fair to smalltalk > implementations. This way there will no feeling that Pharo takes too much of > the pie. > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Pharo4Stef <[email protected]> wrote: > Janko > > in fact I'thinking about it may be this is the time to propose a Pharo > specific GSOC program. > If they are enough people willing to do that we have an association with a > real legal status ready for that. > > :) thanks for giving us the idea. > > Stef > > On 08 Feb 2014, at 11:34, Janko Mivšek <[email protected]> wrote: > >> .. and of course my answer: >> >> Dear Smalltalkers, >> >> Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see >> the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive >> to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias >> towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more >> independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better >> visibility of such name of course. >> >> I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: >> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors >> >> All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this >> mailing list and help with debate: >> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> >> Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:53, piše Pharo4Stef: >>> I’m sorry to have to forward you this kind of mail but I do it. >>> I will not send other emails on the topics. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> Dear community >>> >>> On the [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> janko is kind of >>> declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing >>> GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. >>> Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does >>> not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and >>> stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or >>> anything. >>> >>> I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend >>> time, money and be treated like that. >>> Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. >>> >>> Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the >>> fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. >>> Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of >>> janko are just so nice. I let you judge. >>> >>> It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not >>> to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. >>> >>>> About motivations for my proposal: >>>> >>>> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . >>>> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations >>>> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs >>>> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. >>>> >>>> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let >>>> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more >>>> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. >>> >>> >>> I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you >>> as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that >>> some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source >>> smalltalk. May be the losers theory. >>> >>> I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much >>> calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that >>> is a nice proof in itself. >>> >>> Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, >>> Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. >>> >>> Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> *From: *Janko Mivšek <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* >>>> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 >>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> *Reply-To: *[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> Dear mentors, >>>> >>>> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. >>>> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, >>>> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization >>>> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. >>>> >>>> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to >>>> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> Janko >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Janko Mivšek >>>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. >>> ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax >>> forms and so on. >>> >>> Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive >>> money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? >>> >>> One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that >>> it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. >>> >>> And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost >>> money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots >>> than got in with the money from google). >>> We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: >>> Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going >>> from the airpot >>> to the hotel). >>> >>> >>> What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We >>> had last year the fast that >>> a) it was very expensive for ESUG >>> b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay >>> the same as google >>> c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put >>> “Google Summer of Code” on the CV. >>> >>> The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So >>> we ask if it is really worth to spend the money >>> if even the students are not happy about it. >>> >>> And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be >>> easier to enable “Quotas” for different Smalltalks: I think this is a >>> dumb idea. >>> >>> Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They >>> just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit >>> my activity for “Fairness”. Limiting the activity level of those who do >>> to be more “in line” with what those do who do nothing is just >>> *insane*. It’s a description of death itself. >>> >>> Marcus >>> >> >> -- >> Janko Mivšek >> Svetovalec za informatiko >> Eranova d.o.o. >> Ljubljana, Slovenija >> www.eranova.si >> tel: 01 514 22 55 >> faks: 01 514 22 56 >> gsm: 031 674 565 > >
