Well, I just had a look and vm-dev messages weren't coming to me anymore as it looks like there is some spam rejection active somewhere on my address.
So, that's why - I hit reply but this was pharo-dev... Phil On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:19 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Sure but at this time, not being able to run the simulator in a full >>> Pharo environment is a severe issue. >>> >>> The key advantage is that the Smalltalk VM is written in itself. >>> >>> Now, what do I experience is that it is hard to embark on VM work. >>> >>> Why? Even if the PharoVMBuilders help in generating and compiling the VM >>> for several platforms (I can build for Windows 8.1, OSX, iOS, Debian 7 etc) >>> this is only one part of the puzzle. >>> >>> The next step, is to understand how things do work for real, the >>> interpret() C loop isn't gonna help me one bit, I need to be able to >>> simulate this one in a Simulator. And I want to do that on the Pharo >>> platform. Currently on 2.0 - this will (again) be fun to get to work on 3.0. >>> >>> I am not in the league of the VM maintainers obviously. >>> >>> But Clement provided me with Eliot's Cog Simulation image, which works >>> for his own work. But only his own. We do not have something like a >>> Configuration to get the same thing. And that's a very acute pain. There >>> are only so many hours in a day, true. So, in order to bring in more >>> people/resources for the VM work, the barrier to entry should be moved a >>> tad down. >>> >>> We tried to have the StackSimulator working for a while (Stephan I'll >>> definitely get your version, thanks for it). This is also because >>> InterpreterSimulator doesn't work anymore and we have to use the >>> StackInterpreter instead (which is complicated already vs pure interpreter). >>> >>> All of this rant to say that having a clean interpreter and a basic >>> image (Maybe PharoKernel/Hazelnut/Boostrapping/Spoon will give us a >>> very simple image to simulate - the whole image isn't really needed. >>> Hopefully Oz will also move us forward on that front). >>> >>> A real Pharo image is overkill for this as a ton of plugins get involved >>> etc. >>> >>> The core system should be the same for Pharo/Squeak/... : >>> >>> VMMaker-MemoryManager >>> VMMaker-Interpreter >>> VMMaker-InterpreterSimulation >>> VMMaker-MemoryManagerSimulation >>> >>> and of course the Slang things (VMMaker-Support and VMMaker-Translation >>> to C). >>> >>> What I'd love to end up with is an embeddable VM that we could hook into >>> other environments, languages etc (a bit like TCL for example). This >>> requires work on how the VM core runs. And to explore this, simulation is >>> needed. >>> >>> Sorry for the long post. I wish I was a millionaire to pour in some cash >>> into the project to speed some areas up. Working on it :-) Maybe should we >>> work in that direction for funding. http://www.gv.com/ where are you? >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> Getting the simulator working in Pharo could be a GSoC project? or is >> it too advanced? >> > > If you guys would read and contribute to vm-dev you'd already know that > someone with no VM experience (tty) just implemented event processing for > the simulator window. The simulator only supported the old polling event > architecture. So no it's not too advanced. But more importantly why > aren't you all discussing vm stuff on the vm forum? > > >> cheers -ben >> > -- > best, > Eliot >
