thanks for you kind words Ben. No the GUI I am developing for Ephestos is suppose to be separate from Blender , I have no intention of forking Blender and maintaining such fork.
Regarding OSWindow that wont be necessary I will most likely use Ephestos to access pyQT which in turn will give me access to QT. So most likely I will be building the futuristic GUI on top of QT. I could also bypass python and do a C++ wrapper for pharo for QT, not full functionality but rather the parts that interest me but that will be a lot more tricky. I have changed my mind, with the advice I have been getting here and in the parser C++ thread it looks like I will keep using pharo for generation of my C code. Afterall Slang is already heavily used so I think I can rely on it. What Slang cannot do I can do it coding manually in C. So I think I can fit Pharo to my workflow quite a lot. Very happy to be proven once more wrong about Pharo :) On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote: > kilon alios wrote: > > No offense intended but lately the more I dive inside Pharo the more I > feel I waste my time, I love the IDE and the environment and live coding > but using the libraries is a never ending struggle for me. I agree with > Nicolai the landscape is not good, Pharo really lacks mature libraries . > Sure we like to bash Java but Java libs are rock solid and very well > documented. I bring Java as example. Again I am not complaining at all, I > knew when I came to Pharo that I will have to face these limitations. I > also don't feel comfortable asking questions all the time as if I want > others to do my code but I did not have much of a choice. I just cant deal > with the lack of documentation any more. > > > You demonstrated your willingness to contribute and I think that goes a > long way to balance any number of questions. Now you should appreciate that > asking questions actually shows someone making use of a library, which can > be good thing for a developer. And as ESR says [1], "The first thing to > understand is that hackers actually like hard problems and good, > thought-provoking questions about them. [...] If you give us an interesting > question to chew on we'll be grateful to you; good questions are a stimulus > and a gift. Good questions help us develop our understanding, and often > reveal problems we might not have noticed or thought about otherwise." > > [1] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html (yes I know, my > favourite again) > > > I think Pharo as a general idea is great , you definitely have taken the > Squeak fork one big step further but you have a very long road ahead of you > to make Pharo a modern environment. Asking for animating a window with good > performance is one of the very basics of a good GUI API. I know you have > limited resources and once again I am not complaining at all I just present > my opinion. Its clear that Pharo needs a lot more people to contribute and > bring the system forward at least to solve the basic problems. > > Thank you all people who helped me. But I don't think it worths to make > my project in Pharo, too many problems. I feel privileged to have helped > you with my contributions , I wish the Pharo the best. > > > I can definitely understand with your main interest being an existing > application like Blender written in C, then developing in C may give you > the greatest power. Good luck with it! > > > I could return back to Python but I think its time for me to bite the > bullet and learn C/C++, since graphics is an area that deeply interest me > (more as an artist less as a coder), so I don't have much of choice. Maybe > I can brings some of my code back to Pharo with NB wrappers , I definitely > will keep a close eye on Pharo. > > In a few months I will also present to the Pharo community a secret last > contribution ;) > > > I have really appreciated your enthusiasm, your joy of Pharo, and your > honest constructive criticisms. Sometimes it can be suspect that > Smalltalker fanbois are blinded by their world view, but as a newcomer to > Pharo your positive comparisons of Pharo versus languages-you-knew-better > were a nice validation of Pharo, even if there remain things to improve. > Now life is a long and winding road, so maybe opportunity will arise > sometime for you to use Pharo again. I hope you have fun in the meantime! > > btw, just a parting thought that I had regarding your requirement. Rather > than trying to do your Blender graphics rendering on top of some layer in > Pharo, you might** use OSWindow [2] to create a native-window-canvas that > you pass to Blender for it to render directly into. As I understand it, > you could then build a Pharo base GUI around that window. Now if that > happened to be possible, your dive into programming Blender in "C" would > probably be of great benefit. Maybe something to come back to later. > > **Disclaimer, I haven't used OSWindow. Its just an intuitive thought. > [2] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~OS/OS-Windows (scroll down to "The > Windows User Interface" and "Graphics") > > cheers -ben > > >
