Le 5 févr. 2015 02:30, "Stephen Travis Pope" <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > Hello PharoDev, > > I have a largish project (Siren) that I have developed in ST80/VisualWorks > (since 1984) and ported to Squeak in the past. > > I'm allows looking for a cleaner free ST80 implementation to host the > project. > > Looking at Pharo, it appears to me to be suffering the same bloat issues as > Squeak. > > I have a few questions: > > Why don't you all use a 6-paned browser (called the package browser in > Squeak) and control the introduction of top-level meta-categories? The > top-level (packages or meta-catgories) should be a list of 20 or fewer > topics such as Magnitudes, Collections, Graphics, Text, Compiler, Tools, > etc. and each of these should have 20 or fewer categories within it. I > ported the package browser to Squeak and reorganized their system once, but > people continued to add top-level categories to make finding their code > easier. I tried to add the facility to the Pharo browser a year or so ago, > and gave up because I couldn't figure how out how to subclass and refine the > existing browser framework (and the fact that it seems to be under > construction). > > Why do you still use the (terrible, IMHO) Squeak graphics and UI packages > (Morphic, Balloon, etc)? It appears that new mostly-redundant systems are > still being added to replace these, right? Can't someone reimplement the > VisualWorks "Wrapper" UI framework (or something like it) on top of OpenGL > contexts as in VW? It's help up pretty well after over 25 years. (David > Leibs and I toasted it just last December in Australia.) > > How does a newbie learn what all the new packages are for? Glamour, Ring, > AsmJit, Zinc, etc. are neat names, but if they're not part of higher-level > packages it makes navigating the system (and even figuring out what they're > for) pretty difficult. > > Are there any benchmarks of the current VMs compared to VisualWorks? The > last time I used Squeak (a few years ago) it was still pretty slow. I have a > real-time event scheduler in Siren that I use to schedule MIDI, so I can run > "drum roll" tests to see how the VM performs. > > How does Pharo handle user primitives or foreign function calls? Is anyone > maintaining the old SWIG implementation of Smalltalk? I used it quite a bit > to have Smalltalk code create and manage C++ signal processing graphs in the > past. SWIG is still going strong, and it's embarrassing that there's no > mention at all of Smalltalk on the SWIG pages. > > > I'm not trying to start a fight, and I really did like the initial Pharo > mission statement of making a tighter, cleaner open-source ST80 > implementation. Is that dream still what motivates the community? > If yes, where are the minimalists hiding?
There aren't that many high level categories. Any trip to Java? One can reduce the list with any regex in the box above the list and get that reduced list. e.g. ^Kernel There is a SWIG that supports Pharo. Check the Woden project as it used SWIG to wrap OpenGL/OpenCL. The SWIG thing is in the rmGithub repo of the Woden developer. Read Deep into Pharo for explanations on some packages. Also go to squarebaracketsassociates on github for books in progress etc. Id you want to create browsers maybe your best bet is to go the GToolkit route. Glamour is the framework supporting all of that. Nautilus can feel a bit unfinished but that's one get when challenging the status quo and learning how to go the the next level. Graphics are supported by Athens which wraps Cairo. Look in there, there is quite useful material. OSWindow and libSDL bindings open the door to better/faster interactions. I like Morphic and Balloon as they help me get how things are happening under the hood. FFI options experiences lots of attention at the moment. FFI as in original FFI works. Alien is there but kind of stale. NativeBoost works on x86 uFFI is a bew thing. One can also use the CCodeGenerator from inside the image. Need to load it first. BTW, I like your work and would love to see it working in Pharo. HTH Phil > > Stephen Pope > HeavenEverywhere Media and FASTLabInc.com > Santa Barbara, CA USA > > -- > > Stephen Travis Pope Santa Barbara, California, USA http://HeavenEverywhere.com > >
