As a half-way house, consider that "upgrade" scripts could be a good mechanism post-Release when changes should be less-deep/less-arduous on the system. This might avoid Esteban's time being needed to re-Release for each upgrade, with post-Release moving to a more community supported mechanism. This could scale better as we gain more users interested in long term support of their applications on a stable-release than the moving target of the development-edge.
cheers -ben On 25 December 2017 at 23:11, Stephane Ducasse <[email protected]> wrote: > Nicolas > > We want to keep the live part of Pharo and incremental loading and it > is key for us. Now we should not be naive. > Most of the time we do not have the garantee that a change will work > when loaded. > > We proposed Pablo to work since two years on a really working dynamic > code loader and > Pablo has really nice results. But it takes time to evaluate if/how we > integrate its changes. > Pablo has an atomic coder loader and an incremental and modular class > builder. > He also designed a modular shutdown/startup list manager (in production). > > We want to be able to have a **real** and robust incremental load. > Right now as you know it and as in ANY smalltalk I can break the > system super easily. > There is no magic. I do not see how we can make sure that any piece of > code will be loaded > and do not break the system. > So our objective is to have a new infrastructure that we can updates > (like method hashes for example without having to > twists our mind and do five updates). > > Now about git, we want and we will have our lovely image as a working > directory but this requires engineering > because the image is another artefact that other languages do not have > to worry. > We will get there. > > Stef > > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Nicolas Cellier > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > 2017-12-24 2:59 GMT+01:00 Alexandre Bergel <[email protected]>: > >> > >> My four wishes, in no particular order: > >> - Better code completion > >> - Git in Pharo as easy as using Git for other languages > > > > The recipe is easy: turn pharo into a file based edit-compile-run > language > > and expunge those live object burden ;) > > Let me explain why it's not just trolling. > > Currently we have to download an image made by a bot. > > Pharo has gradually lost the power to upgrade the image (it's not new). > > > > If we recognize that an image acts like a workspace, and want to let the > > pull/branch switch/etc work again... > > IOW going from one point to any other in source code graph > > and experience the full power of git like any other language, > > that means, in a live IDE, at least solving those two problems: > > - changing the tools that are used to upgrade the image (Compiler, > > MethodDictionary, Array, etc...) > > - correctly initialize all the states (including stange loops) > > If pharo has not managed to solve this with a linear one way history (the > > regularly broken update image option), > > how do you think this is going to be solved in the more general case? > > I call this the universal boostrap problem. > > > > IMO the logical next step is to separate the IDE > > (the Inanimate Desintegrated Environment of any other language). > > > > Maybe we don't have to bend Pharo too much to git if it does not fit. > > The goal: as easy might be not that easy. > > > > > >> - Bloc on Steroid > >> - Being able to interrupt any process and endless loop using > Cmd-. > >> > >> Merry Christmas to all of you! > >> Alexandre > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Dec 23, 2017, at 1:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi everybody, > >> > > >> > This looks like a good moment of the year to ask all of you what would > >> > you want to see in Pharo next year. > >> > Features, improvements, radical changes, etc…. whatever you want. > >> > > >> > Of course, this list will not be a roadmap and it does not means we > will > >> > implement all of it (as always, time drives our possibilities), but > is a > >> > good moment for us a a community to check where we are and where we > wan to > >> > go next :) > >> > > >> > So, let’s those wishes come! > >> > > >> > cheers, > >> > Esteban > >> > >> > > > >
