Hi Doru,

> On Jan 11, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> @Eliot: Thanks for the clarifying answer.
> 
> I believe you might have jumped to conclusion about the intention of the 
> question. Thomas asked a legitimate question. Without users of a method it is 
> hard to understand its use. It does not necessarily imply that the intention 
> is to remove it, but it does show that someone wants to understand.

Indeed.  I am responding because of the recent experience we had, that you are 
intimately aware of, of moving the somewhat functional Pharo 6 VMMaker port 
forward to Pharo 7, which is frustrating because enough things changes that it 
was broken.  And that is far from an isolated experience.

I want very, very much for Pharo to succeed.  It is the most important user of 
the opensmalltalk-vm by far.  If Pharo fails, opensmalltalk-vm will very likely 
become entirely irrelevant and uninteresting.  So my career and financial 
security are wedded to Pharo’s success.  At the same time I do not feel 
positive about Pharo, as I have said, in its stability and in the community’s 
difficulty in discussing problems (primarily the stability and development 
model issues).  I am therefore very much interested in solving these problems.  
So if I jump to conclusions it is because I am concerned and want to change how 
I feel about Pharo as a viable platform for my work, and that means being able 
to talk about difficult issues and not be shushed.  I want there to be 
constructive discussion, not defensiveness or blithe positivity.  Progress 
depends on truth and ingenuity, not positive thinking.

> 
> As far as I know, Thomas actually wants to write a test to cover that usage. 
> I am sure that you appreciate and encourage that :).

Indeed I do!

> 
> @Thomas: Thanks for this effort!
> 
> Cheers,
> Doru
> 
> 
>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 3:11 PM, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Thomas,
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2019, at 2:24 AM, Thomas Dupriez via Pharo-dev 
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> <mime-attachment>
>> 
>> in a stack of contexts the active pc is different for the top context.  For 
>> other than the top context, a context’s pc will be pointing after the send 
>> that created the context above it, so to find the pc of the send one finds 
>> the previous pc.  For the top context its pc is the active pc.
>> 
>> Typically the debugger is invoked in two different modes, interruption or 
>> exception. When interrupted, a process is stopped at the next suspension 
>> point (method entry or backward branch) and the top context in the process 
>> is the context to be displayed in the debugger.  When an exception occurs 
>> the exception search machinery will find the signaling context, the context 
>> that raised the exception, which will be below the search machinery and the 
>> debugger invocation above that. The active pc of the signaling context will 
>> be the of for the send of digbsl et al.
>> 
>> So the distinction is important and the utility method is probably useful.
>> 
>> Do you want to remove the method simply because there are no senders in the 
>> image?
>> 
>> If so, this is indicative of a serious problem with the Pharo development 
>> process.  In the summer I ported VMMaker.oscog to Pharo 6.  Now as feenk try 
>> and build a VMMaker.oscog image on Pharo 7, the system is broken, in part 
>> because of depreciations and in part because useful methods 
>> (isOptimisedBlock (isOptimizedBlock?) in the Opal compiler) have been 
>> removed.
>> 
>> Just because a method is not in the image does not imply it is not in use.  
>> It simply means that it is not in use in the base image.  As the system gets 
>> modularised this issue will only increase.  There are lots of collection 
>> methods that exist as a library that are not used in the base image and 
>> removing them would clearly damage the library for users.  This is the case 
>> for lots of so-called system code.  There are users out there, like those of 
>> us in the vm team, who rely on such system code, and it is extremely 
>> unsettling and frustrating to have that system code change all the time.  If 
>> Pharo is to be a useful platform to the vm team it has to be more stable.
> 
> --
> www.feenk.com
> 
> “The smaller and more pervasive the hardware becomes, the more physical the 
> software gets."
> 
> 

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