On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Antony Blakey wrote:
>
> On 22/03/2009, at 9:48 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> Sorry, my fault. You need to sync in both cases (even with green
>> threads).
>
> Green threads make some underlying implementation details easier, but
> at the language level the difference they make is determined by the
> interleaving guarantees they provide, and the extent to which the user
> can take advantage of those guarantees e.g. the yield-point model.
>
> IMO the solution to concurrency is not to simply add native threads -
> it also requires a more functional type of programming, and that can
> be largely provided by immutable data structures and more powerful
> abstractions, such as those provided in Clojure.
can you illustrate that point?
Another question I would love to have immutability bit for pharo.
Now if you have immutable collection then I imagine that
- you should copy them when you want to modify them (functional)
- I was wondering if the object that you put such immutable data
structure should
also be immutable
>
> I'm not suggesting adding native threads to Squeak. Squeak is quite a
> minefield as it is. I think it's time for a new model of Smalltalk
> that includes native threads from the get-go, and is a rethinking of
> the Smalltalk tradition, in the same way that Clojure is a rethinking
> of the Lisp tradition. The parallels between Lisp and Smalltalk, in
> terms of their paradigmatic roles, market issues, and communities, is
> quite striking. Why should these two powerhouses of beautiful
> programming not *both* be reborn.
Can you tell a word on clojure?
Stef
>
>
>> There is another problem, that squeak processes is cheap (few bytes
>> in
>> object memory), while allocating new native thread consumes
>> considerable amount of memory & address space. So, if you map
>> Processes to native threads, you will lose the ability in having
>> millions of them, instead you will be limited to thousands.
>
> You don't need a 1:1 mapping. You can use a native thread pool to
> execute lightweight threads. Erlang manages with huge numbers of
> language level processes.
>
> Antony Blakey
> --------------------------
> CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd
> Ph: 0438 840 787
>
> It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of
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> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
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