Stef, I am not quite willing to speak of Dolphin in the past tense, as there is a collaboration between Object Arts and Lesser. My interest is not so much running on macs as running off of Windows. Depending on various forces, I might turn into a mac user, but for now Linux looks like the escape plan.
Oddly enough, I was trying to figure out if I could reasonably organize a fork of Squeak (and very much doubted that I could make it happen) when I learned of Saphire. Thanks for getting all of this going! Bill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Startup/shutdown On Aug 28, 2009, at 2:23 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Hello all, > > I am doing some more porting and hitting some trouble spots - no real > surprise that they exist. However, I am struck by a strong belief > that Dolphin has a lot of things right, and startup and shutdown is > very high on that list. this is clear that dolphin people always value code quality over hyper innovation. If dolphin would work on mac and (if it was going open source except of been killed) I would use it daily. > > No offense to Nicolas, who has been quite helpful, let's consider a > somewhat extrmeme example. Suppose a server is using an ORB to do SSL > protected communications with various servers and clients, some > Seaside work, and has a few database connections open. Are we content > with having to close and reopen all of that just to save the image? I > submit that this is a flawed design. Worst case, the vm knows when it > loads an image and could tell the image that it happened. From there, > a lot of extra work could be dumped. > > Nicolas is quite right that step (2) below must be done carefully, but > it has been handled nicely in Dolphin by registering potential > offenders in the startup triggers and doing the cleanup at that time. > External resources are released on a shutdown trigger, but not image > save. This will strike again with native windows, as the current > approach would (stop me if this is a fallacy) have everything released > and reopened on image save, which would be very inefficient. > > I have code that expects a class called SessionManager, and I am > seriously thinking of creating it. It would trigger events for starup > and shutdown, help with logging, etc. Can it be donw without hacking > the vm? > > Bill > > > > =========================================================== > > [Pharo-project] Save and quit vs. Save - a clue to performance??? > Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 > 22:48:34 CEST 2009 > > * Previous message: [Pharo-project] Save and quit vs. Save - a clue > to performance??? > * Next message: [Pharo-project] Save and quit vs. Save - a clue to > performance??? > * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > Current policy is to cleanup before saving, and reconnect after saving > as if a fresh startup occured As you seem to suggest, a possible > alternative without using fork would be to: > 1) distinguish whether this is a newly restarted image (primSnapshot > returning true or false...) > 2) perform all the clean-ups at startup if newly restarted image > 3) rely on the process exit() to perform required resource clean-up in > case we quit (or let a self aboutToQuit do some) > > Step 2) would deserve great care, any unprotected access to an > uninitialized pointer of the old image would crash or trash memory... > > Nicolas > > 2009/7/16 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab at anest.ufl.edu>: >> Nicolas, >> >> One thing I forgot to mention: thread safety??? IIRC, Dolphin >> triggers startup events, and all external resources clear pointers >> then (though they will release on shutdown, not image saving) to >> force a lazy connection. >> >> I see why, absent help from the vm, the image does not know when it >> starts and stops. What I do not get is why the vm does not tell it. >> If it did, I _think_ we could clean all of this up. Sometimes the >> truth hurts though, so please find any faults in my logic (or lack >> thereof). >> >> Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
