Hi Mariano,

I also agree with you.

Cheers,
Doru


On 4 Jan 2010, at 09:24, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:

> Please, don't say "NOOOOO!" immediately. Read the mail carefully,  
> take a deep breath and think cold.
>
> After working a couple of weeks in the Metacello configurations and  
> now with Damien's scripts to build Dev and Web images, I came to the  
> question:  Do we really need a PharoWeb image?
>
> I will give just my opinions of why having PharoWeb images is not a  
> good idea anymore
>
> 1) First of all, I don't like the PharoWeb name. Because it is not  
> Web in general, it is seaside. So, in my opinion, a better name  
> would be PharoSeaside. Maybe even new comers may think that the only  
> alternative is seaside. You know I have nothing against Seaside and  
> that I even use it several times. I would like to see AidaWeb images  
> based in Pharo too.
>
> 2) Why to still have PharoWeb images if now Seaside images (at least  
> the one click) are based in seaside ?  In addition, when I develop  
> in Seaside, I use Seaside images, not PharoWeb, and I think most  
> people do the same.
>
> 3) Seaside images (or Lukas images for seaside) are MUCH more stable  
> than the PharoWeb images. Why? Several reasons:
>    3.a) THEY know the dependencies of the packages, the versions,  
> how to set up, the order of load, etc,  NOT us. THEY are the experts  
> in seaside, not us.
>    3.b) THEY really test their images before make then public.
>    3.c) We are "force" to release one release per month which has no  
> sense. How says that Seaside is released once a month? That's bad  
> because it means we are usually taking unstable versions. THEY know  
> when a release should be done and when a release is stable or not.
>
> 4) Now I created all the Metacello configurations for the PharoDev  
> image and I took me a lot of time. Because I am not the developer of  
> any of those projects. So, I need to understand the dependencies,  
> the order, the versions, etc. But why ??? If Seaside people have  
> already done that, don't duplicate efforts.
>
> 5) The instability of PharoWeb images give to our public a bad  
> impression. We waste all of out efforts of Pharo in that image.
>
> 6) The idea of Pharo is to be the vehicle. And that's exactly the  
> Pharo role in the Seaside images. We don't need to build PharoWeb  
> images.
> Even more, do we build PharoGlass images ? NOOOO. Why not ? Because  
> Dale already prepare them and as HE knows much more about Glass than  
> us, his images are better for Glass.
>
> 7) Tracking and managing issues always take time. Even analyzing a  
> bug, say "we won't fix" and close it. With PharoWeb images we are  
> having those kind of issues.
>
> 8) Our resources are limited. Why not to use them in more important  
> stuff ? For example, building a better and more robust Dev image?
>
>
>
> Here is my proposal:
>
> 1) Completely remove the idea of PharoWeb image. Remove the links  
> from the website and do not create Web images any more.
> 2) In http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download  add a description  
> explaining that now Seaside images are based in Pharo, so you can  
> directly download that image. We can even explain a bit about  
> seaside, and even if you want you can put a href called "PharoWeb"  
> which links to the seaside image. However, I would rather call it  
> "PharoSeaside".
> 3) Tomorrow we can have AidaWeb images based in pharo (please  
> Janko!!)  so we can just do the same and put the link to those images.
> 4) You may notice that Seaside images are a bit "different" than our  
> Dev images. This is mostly due to the preferences, the theme and  
> maybe some tools (ECompeltion instead of OCompletion, etc..). So,  
> what I suggest is to prepare a little script that can be  
> downloadable and those people who want a Seaside image but more  
> "similar" to our Dev images, just run that script.
>
>
> So...what do you think? I would really like to hear your opinion  
> about this.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [email protected]
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