On Apr 21, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Peter Hugosson-Miller wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> Basically yes.
> 
> It's not just for giving it to someone else, but also for yourself. The idea 
> is to quickly notice when tests change color (from green to red), so instead 
> of remembering how many failed before and comparing with the current number 
> of failures, you simply mark them as expected failures and your bar becomes 
> green.
> 
> Thanks, I think I get it now.
> 
> So really, I shouldn't expect to see any expected failures in Pharo 1.0, but 
> since Pharo 1.1 is still in alpha, it would be OK to have some there until 
> it's ready for release.

in a perfect world now in pharo we have tests that are red and we could not 
fixed easily.

> --
> Cheers,
> Peter
>  
> Doru
> 
> 
> 
> On 21 Apr 2010, at 11:28, Peter Hugosson-Miller wrote:
> 
> Thanks for answering, Doru!
> 
> So if I've understood you correctly, expected failures are useful when one 
> wants to give some code to someone else, with all the tests running green, 
> but at the same time let that person know that some specific tests are really 
> still red, but known about. In other words, are they simply a way of 
> documenting "work in progress", and not for production code?
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Peter
> 
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The idea behind this is that you can use unit tests to document things you 
> have not done yet, or bugs that you know about but you do not want to spend 
> time working on right now.
> 
> Simply reverting the assertion in your test does make the test runner green, 
> but it fails to document the intention, and a newcomer might get to the false 
> conclusion that the answer is not 42. By marking the test as expected 
> failure, you make the test runner green, but you also explicitly say that the 
> answer should be 42, but the machine is not quite perfect yet.
> 
> Cheers,
> Doru
> 
> 
> 
> On 21 Apr 2010, at 11:06, Peter Hugosson-Miller wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to follow along with this discussion, but now I feel really stupid 
> :-(
> 
> I've been using SUnit since 1998 (when it was still called 
> "BeckTestingFramework"), and ever since "expected failures" showed up, I've 
> never understood them. So I wonder if some kind guru-like person could please 
> explain to me what they are useful for? I mean, to my way of thinking, if one 
> writes a test that is expected to fail, then why not invert the test and call 
> it a success instead?
> 
> for example:
> 
>     self should: [answer = 42]
> 
> ...as an expected failure could simply be re-written as
> 
>     self should: [answer ~= 42]
> 
> ...right? No, obviously I've missed something really obvious and important, 
> and that's why I'm asking the question now. Please be gentle ;-)
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Peter
> 
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stéphane Ducasse 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> We should have a look at what adrian did now the problem is that 
> understanding a large set of changes is more difficult than a couple of 
> simple ones.
> If somebody want to help we are open.
> Stef
> 
> 
> > I think Adrian Kuhn did that in his SUnit work. I also remember he also 
> > introduced a difference between expectedFailures and expectedErrors.
> >
> > Doru
> >
> >
> > On 21 Apr 2010, at 10:16, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 21, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yea, I agree, the GUI is suboptimal.
> >>>
> >>> I still think, though, that treating this case as a failure is correct. 
> >>> For instance, consider the case where you had added a workaround to a 
> >>> known bug and when the bug is fixed you need to remove the workaround 
> >>> again. Maybe it even leads to a wrong behavior now that the bug is gone. 
> >>> In this case you really want to know that the test does not fail anymore.
> >>
> >> yes
> >> Now I have the impression that expectedFailures should be like passes, 
> >> failed, errors: a state of the tests.
> >>
> >> Stef
> >>
> >>> In any case, I think that tagging methods as expected failures should be 
> >>> done with pragmas and not with #expectedFailures. Like this it would also 
> >>> be much easier to understand what's going on when you have a failure in 
> >>> this test although all assertions pass.
> >>>
> >>> Adrian
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 21, 2010, at 08:22 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes, if a test that is expected to fail does not fail, this is treated 
> >>>>> as a failure. I think that makes sense.
> >>>>
> >>>> well it depends about the scenario.
> >>>> you put on expectedfailures something that gets in your way now, so 
> >>>> after if it works even better.
> >>>> of course you should get notified that the test is green while expected 
> >>>> it to failed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now it leads to a UI problem where you have a failure that passes so 
> >>>> when you click on it nothing happens: no debugger.
> >>>> And you can wonder why the hell do I have a failure when my tests pass.
> >>>>
> >>>> So I think that this implementation of expectedFailures is a hack.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Adrian
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 21:57 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I tagged some tests as expected failures and I got a strange behavior.
> >>>>>> On the the tests which was passing was listed under the failures.
> >>>>>> When I renamed the method without updating the expected failures my 
> >>>>>> bar was green.
> >>>>>> So expected failures really expect that the tests failed? We cannto 
> >>>>>> have green tests in there?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Stef
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
> >>>>>> [email protected]
> >>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
> >>>>> [email protected]
> >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Pharo-project mailing list
> >>>> [email protected]
> >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Pharo-project mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pharo-project mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> >
> > --
> > www.tudorgirba.com
> >
> > "Live like you mean it."
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pharo-project mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Beauty is where we see it."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


_______________________________________________
Pharo-project mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Reply via email to