Bill, that was not obvious... and is probably not helpful to me. At least, Miguel's response was funny. Thank you for provoking that, I owe you a smile :)
Nicolas 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[email protected]>: > What I am saying to him is that the decision of whether or not to wrap > pllegend() is complicated, so whether or not I adopt his proposed solution > will probably be more about the relevance of pllegend() to those funding my > efforts than the technical merits of what he suggests. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] > [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá > [[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 4:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments > > El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 16:08 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió: >> It might still work at first try, though your initial presentation of it >> left me expecting something else. Don't give up as quickly as you seem to >> think I do. I will admit that the legend support in PLplot is not all that >> great to start, and it might not be worthy of heroic measures. It is not >> even clear that it is finalized, though they seem resistant to changing what >> they have. A clean way to go from a fraction of 0...@0 extent:1...@1 (aka a >> viewport) to a legend might be even more valuable. I have already used >> viewports to good effect, so adding a legend based on them might be >> reasonable and not all that different from what I will be doing with R not >> too long from now. Controlling text size can be problematic, which with a >> couple of other quirks is why I initially had high hopes for pllegend(). >> >> What PLplot does very nicely is plot "large" numbers of points from arrays >> of doubles. For now, we are lacking in the infrastructure required to take >> advantage of that. My solution so far is not ideal. >> > > Sorry but when reading those types of emails sometimes I ask myself if I > am not victim of a prank and lose to the Turing machine test and the > mails were really generated automatically from a computer or some kind > of Eliza software. > > What are you talking about Bill? And what has that to do with the words > and the very reasonable points that Nicolas expresed in the mail you are > responding to? > > >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: [email protected] >> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier >> [[email protected]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:30 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> >> 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[email protected]>: >> > Nicolas, >> > >> > The "not trivial" did indeed reduce my interest. I can get around it for >> > my own needs far more easily than taking a detour. If a detour is >> > required, then economics will all but force me to take the more sensible >> > path. The question is whether you get a PLplot interface with or without >> > legend support. I get it either way. So much for this mattering only to >> > me (not directed at you). >> > >> >> Well, it might have worked at first try, or not... At least that would >> be a valuable information. >> You could even have enrolled me in helping a port to Pharo, my time is >> scarse, but it's free. >> If you have a simple solution, that's OK, but I just wonder why you >> asked this list. >> If you don't take our answers into account, then we're in a dead-end. >> No feedback, no win-win cycle. >> If it's just to diiscuss technical merit of whatever solution, without >> a line of code to share, then it's gonna get too abstract to interest >> many of us. >> Beware to not dry the sources. >> >> Cheers >> >> Nicolas >> >> > If you look on the PLplot lists, you will find some discussion of the >> > function's design; IMHO, it's not optimal. However, as most things in >> > PLplot, it works; see link below. The options are: >> > >> > (1) call the function as designed (hence my question) >> > (2) use a viewport to make a new coordinate system inside the graph and >> > draw "the hard way" relative to it >> > (3) wrap pllegend() in a .so of my own; five minutes later, I'm calling a >> > restricted functionality version with defaults of value to me. >> > >> > Even I am not thrilled about (3), if only because of linking hassles from >> > my .so to theirs, but it would be quick. (2) is questionable. I have >> > used viewports very successfully to make grids of related graphs and to do >> > limited versions of what gnuplot does with "y2." In this case, it has the >> > potential to turn into a bit of a time sink, and then the question arises >> > "why am I doing it?" If it is just to spread around the benefits of >> > legend support, I probably have to rethink it. If it is better for all of >> > us ("us" is complicated), then it's on the table. >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > >> > http://plplot.sourceforge.net/examples.php?demo=26 >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: [email protected] >> > [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier >> > [[email protected]] >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:31 PM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> > >> > Hi Bill, >> > I somehow share some of Miguel impressions. >> > Some (most) of your messages are too verbose for me, and - no offense >> > - I often discard them, though I may have a solution to propose. >> > It's hard to understand if our answer was helpful or not, if some >> > details should be changed etc... >> > In one word I've got the feeling to give, but not to share. >> > Maybe my english level is just too low, but you know, these lists are >> > rather international. >> > Sorry for the rant, but please, help us to help you. >> > >> > Back to the technical problem, did the updated version at >> > http://www.squeaksource.com/Smallapack/Compiler-nice.150.mcz help, or >> > did my words "not trivial" stopped you? >> > >> > Nicolas >> > >> > 2010/10/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[email protected]>: >> >> Miguel, >> >> >> >> I do not "need" to make the call. I am wondering whether I can do so in >> >> a way that will benefit others, or I should just say the hell with it and >> >> either provide similar functionality a different way or provide the same >> >> functionality via a .so of my own creation. The latter is fine for me >> >> but does not do much for anyone else. >> >> >> >> And let's say I make it and the thing seg faults. How can I tell the >> >> difference between a limitation of the plugin or a mistake on my part >> >> calling a fairly cumbersome function? The answer: I can't, not without >> >> work that I cannot justify doing when a ready solution exists. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> From: [email protected] >> >> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá >> >> [[email protected]] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:52 PM >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> >> >> >> El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 12:33 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió: >> >>> Miguel, >> >>> >> >>> I see it very differently: I do extensive searches and summarize the >> >>> results, dropping keywords along the way that I wish had been present in >> >>> what I finally uncovered somewhere else. The Pharo archives are then a >> >>> more rich resource they than had been. I happen to know it works, >> >>> because many of the helpful messages I find are in fact mine. >> >>> >> >>> As for whether I could "easily" make the call in question: give me a >> >>> break. It has roughly 20 arguments, and would be a fair amount of work >> >>> to set up. If someone else knows one way or the other, it might trigger >> >>> either a reply along the lines of "yeah, I did ti with 30 arguments" or >> >>> "I fell for that, the plugin choked on...." Restating what I linked >> >>> from another group is not helpful, nor is telling me how easy it would >> >>> be to do something that you have never seen. Did it occur to you that >> >>> there might be pointer arguments that would be a potential sources of >> >>> complexity? You might read what I asked: "have you tried this?" Not >> >>> "please do this for me." It would be wasteful to attempt the call >> >>> without asking for scouting reports. >> >>> >> >> >> >> But in the end if you really need to use that call, either it works or >> >> don't, you'll need to write it, even if someone says that it doesn't >> >> work. Why, because you need it, and if you don't need it then your >> >> question is rhetoric, because you don't even mind the answer. >> >> You can't ask for advise for every and each step you take, most times >> >> you should walk away, _fix_ what you find wrong and then report back the >> >> fix. That would really make the archives more rich because you are >> >> contributing back real knowledge and maybe code and not just polluting >> >> the archives with threads that ask things but solve nothing for anyone >> >> but you. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> >> >>> Bill >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________________ >> >>> From: [email protected] >> >>> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Miguel Cobá >> >>> [[email protected]] >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:13 PM >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> >>> >> >>> El mié, 06-10-2010 a las 11:50 -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K escribió: >> >>> > Levente, >> >>> > >> >>> > What problem do you have with asking whether someone else has already >> >>> > tried it? Really, have you not seen examples of working hard on >> >>> > advice from one source only to discover yet another limit that was not >> >>> > in fine print? >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> But Bill, almost all your questions are long and without apparent focus >> >>> on the real point. Some other times are like this, things that you could >> >>> easily test by yourself maybe in less time that takes you to write so >> >>> many words, send the email and wait for a response from someone willing >> >>> to decipher what the real problem is. Other times you point at problems >> >>> that you find in your environment without giving better hints than "in a >> >>> hopefully updated image", "in a, I think, not modified image", "in my >> >>> machine", that doesn't help in helping you. >> >>> Then you point some problems that it appears that are very evident to >> >>> you and whose solution is also very obvious to you but you don't provide >> >>> a fix for them neither, like the always topic of yours about sockets. >> >>> >> >>> Then when someone points and the obvious things you should do (your >> >>> homework, in verifying yourself what you are asking to the list) or to >> >>> precise the information needed to better answer you, you respond upset >> >>> as if anyone should be obliged to answer you or even read your mails. >> >>> >> >>> So, please, read >> >>> >> >>> http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >> >>> >> >>> do your homework and then ask the list. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > ________________________________________ >> >>> > From: [email protected] >> >>> > [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Levente >> >>> > Uzonyi [[email protected]] >> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:09 PM >> >>> > To: [email protected] >> >>> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> >>> > >> >>> > On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > yes, that's what the link describes. The open question is whether >> >>> > > anyone has successfully done that with 15+ arguments? >> >>> > >> >>> > It works up to 128 arguments. But why don't you try it yourself? >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Levente >> >>> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > ________________________________________ >> >>> > > From: [email protected] >> >>> > > [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Levente >> >>> > > Uzonyi [[email protected]] >> >>> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:26 PM >> >>> > > To: [email protected] >> >>> > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI number of arguments >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> Hello all, >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> I have been bumping into some functions with large numbers of >> >>> > >> arguments. One in particular would be best handled in the image if >> >>> > >> at all possible. The following might be the answer: >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/98538/focus=98543 >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> Have any of you done this with >15 (or whatever the cutoff is) >> >>> > >> arguments? >> >>> > > >> >>> > > You can create your own function object and invoke it with an array. >> >>> > > Here's an fprintf example on windows: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > fprintf := ExternalLibraryFunction >> >>> > > name: 'fprintf' >> >>> > > module: 'msvcrt.dll' >> >>> > > callType: ExternalFunction callTypeCDecl >> >>> > > returnType: ExternalType signedLong >> >>> > > argumentTypes: { >> >>> > > (ExternalType structTypeNamed: #FILE) asPointerType. >> >>> > > ExternalType string. >> >>> > > ExternalType signedLong }. >> >>> > > file := Stdio default fopenWith: 'test.txt' with: 'w'. >> >>> > > fprintf invokeWithArguments: { file. 'Your number is %d.'. 42 }. >> >>> > > Stdio default fcloseWith: file. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Levente >> >>> > > >> >>> > > P.S.: Note that you need the FILE and Stdio classes to run this >> >>> > > example. >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> Bill >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> > >> Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> > >> [email protected] >> >>> > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > > Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> > > [email protected] >> >>> > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> > > >> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > > Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> > > [email protected] >> >>> > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> > [email protected] >> >>> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> > [email protected] >> >>> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Miguel Cobá >> >>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Pharo-project mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Miguel Cobá >> >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pharo-project mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pharo-project mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Miguel Cobá > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
