More recently, he said "Smalltalk: Welcome to the Balkans."

On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:01 PM, Reg Krock <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think it was Kent Beck who ended his email with: "Source code in files? How 
> 1970ish"
> 
> Reg
> 
> On 2011-04-20, at 4:17 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
> 
>> Amen!
>> 
>> Norbert
>> 
>> Am 20.04.2011 um 18:01 schrieb Dale Henrichs:
>> 
>>> Smalltalk is not file-based. For better or for worse. 
>>> 
>>> The fundamental problem with Smalltalk is that it is image-based. 
>>> 
>>> Removing a method from a file is not sufficient to remove the method from 
>>> the image.
>>> 
>>> Change sets were invented to provide a file-based solution to the "how do I 
>>> remove a method from the image" problem.
>>> 
>>> A filein (the one used to initialize your image) plus a series of change 
>>> sets applied in the right order is the file-based methodology for managing 
>>> an image. 
>>> 
>>> Change sets are integral to Smalltalk.
>>> 
>>> Name another language that uses change sets ... 
>>> 
>>> I cannot distribute a fresh set of source files to _upgrade_ an already 
>>> installed application. I have to supply change sets and those change sets 
>>> have to specific to the version that is installed in the image ...
>>> 
>>> Remember the problem is "how do I remove a method from the image".
>>> 
>>> The image is a data base, not an executable program, when you load code you 
>>> also migrate/modify the objects in your "data base".
>>> 
>>> Name another language that does this....
>>> 
>>> Monticello was invented along the way ... I cannot speak to the original 
>>> motivation, but I can say that with Monticello I _can_ distribute a fresh 
>>> set of source files to _upgrade_ an already installed application.
>>> 
>>> Monticello does this by having a meta model that describes the complete 
>>> application. The meta model is not a "source file" it is a serialized 
>>> object graph.
>>> 
>>> Monticello dynamically creates a change set by comparing the meta model of 
>>> the loaded application with the meta model of the incoming "source code".
>>> 
>>> Name another language that does this....
>>> 
>>> So the meat and potatoes of a Monticello mcz file is a binary chunk of 
>>> data....
>>> 
>>> What does git do with binary data? What do humans do with binary data?
>>> 
>>> You need a tool that takes the binary data and makes it readable for the 
>>> poor developers who cannot unzip and deserialize a binary stream of bits on 
>>> sight.
>>> 
>>> Enter SqueakSource and SmalltalkHub....
>>> 
>>> This is where we are today.
>>> 
>>> Can Smalltalk development be based on files....certainly everyone was doing 
>>> file-based development in 1985, but the Smalltalk environments of the day 
>>> migrated away from files ...
>>> 
>>> In 1985 I was writing tools to store files and change sets in RCS ... the 
>>> original ChangeSorter was based on my work back then...
>>> 
>>> In 1993 I was working on tools that stored Smalltalk source meta data using 
>>> PKZIP ... 
>>> 
>>> ENVY stores source meta data into a custom data base....
>>> 
>>> Store stores source meta data in an RDB...
>>> 
>>> In 2011 I am working on tools that store Smalltalk source meta data using 
>>> zip ...
>>> 
>>> Smalltalk is image-base and the "standard" development tools just don't fit 
>>> ... for better or for worse ...
>>> 
>>> Sooooo, we can complain that we are not using git, but there are very good 
>>> reasons for not using git ... today.
>>> 
>>> Just because 20 years of evolution has moved Smalltalk away from using 
>>> files in the traditional manner, doesn't mean that it won't evolve back to 
>>> using files, but until the evolution happens, we need tools like 
>>> SqueakSource3 and SmalltalkHub to support the _current_ model.
>>> 
>>> Dale
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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