On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Ricardo Moran <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Yes, indeed. Right now, for most use cases we use the SerialPort class, >> but we still have some FFI code for other stuff hanging around. I plan to >> write it as a plugin as soon as I have the time. > > > But getting the FFI working on ARM and/or PPC is more effective than > writing yet another plugin, no? We can always add security to the FFI > (essentially some way of disabling internal calls within the FFI plugin, > e.g. based on cryptographic keys to enable it, or whatever). So I really do > appeal to people to help me put the effort in here. I can't justify working > on the FFI on ARM or PPC in my Cadence Newspeak gig; we're entirely on x86. > I /can/ work on the threaded FFI as we need it at Cadence, just as many > other people need it. But for me to move the threaded FFI ahead it needs to > be on all platforms and that means I need help on the platforms I can't > justify working on. > > So folks, please give serious consideration to putting effort into > something that may be a little harder at first but will yield major benefits > slightly later. Let's defer gratification :) > > Hi Eliot, I would love to help but I don't have the hardware nor the knowledge to do it. Sorry... Cheers, Richo > > >> Cheers, >> RIcho >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Bert Freudenberg >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> It's not part of Etoys yet. If its low-level interface indeed requires >>> FFI, then that interface would have to be rewritten as plugin for Etoys to >>> include it. >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> On 22.07.2011, at 14:55, karl ramberg wrote: >>> >>> What about the Physical Etoys project ? >>> http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/projects/physical-etoys/ >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Bert Freudenberg >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 22.07.2011, at 02:10, Eliot Miranda wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > On 22 July 2011 02:34, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > Hi All, >>>> > > today I committed the threaded FFI plugin along with the >>>> threaded VM and >>>> > > hope to be able to support people in doing threaded FFI work on the >>>> x86 >>>> > > platforms really soon now (Esteban, amongst others, this means you >>>> ;) ). >>>> > > But to put the image-level code that uses the new FFI plugin into >>>> > > production the standard VM needs to be upgraded to not crash with >>>> the >>>> > > ExternalFunction image changes the new threaded FFI plugin wants. >>>> The main >>>> > > change is that ExternalFunction changes size, gaining a stackSize >>>> inst var >>>> > > which is used to tell the FFI plugin how much stack spacer to >>>> reserve for >>>> > > marshalling (its computed on first use). The best way for this to >>>> happen is >>>> > > to start using the ThreadedFFIPlugin as the standard plugin in the >>>> > > Interpreter VM. The ThreadedFFIPlugin overall is simpler than the >>>> old FFI >>>> > > plugin (no assembler support code) and better (fully reentrant). >>>> But for >>>> > > this to happen we may need to implement the platform=specific parts >>>> of >>>> > > the ThreadedFFIPlugin (still entirely Smalltalk code) for PowerPC >>>> and ARM >>>> > > (and perhaps others, SPARC??). I understand what has to be done and >>>> I can >>>> > > explain it to anyone interested in working on the problem, but I >>>> don't have >>>> > > any hardware with which I can test the results so its pretty >>>> pointless my >>>> > > doing the work and producing something inevitably broken. So are >>>> there >>>> > > people out there who would be interested in doing the port to PPC >>>> and ARM? >>>> > > It means fleshing out the classes >>>> > > ThreadedARMFFIPlugin ThreadedFFICalloutStateForARM >>>> > > ThreadedPPCBEFFIPlugin ThreadedFFICalloutStateForPPC >>>> > > and having a solid understanding of how alloca works to do stack >>>> allocation >>>> > > and how the ABIs on ARM and PPC pass registers. >>>> > > here's hoping there are a few good low-level people who would be >>>> interested. >>>> > > Let me know. >>>> > >>>> > I wonder if you find anyone today using these archs, not saying using >>>> > squeak/pharo on them + knowing low-level details + wanting to help :) >>>> > >>>> > Right, chances are thin. But then if no one is interested then the >>>> work doesn't need to be done. Bert, you mentioned the other day that PPC >>>> was still relevant for etoys. But am I right in thinking etoys never uses >>>> the FFI? >>>> >>>> Right. Etoys should run on both ARM and PPC, but it does not use FFI. >>>> >>>> - Bert - >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > best, > Eliot > > >
