On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, Frank Shearar <[email protected]> wrote: > On 7 January 2012 15:11, Nicolas Cellier > <[email protected]> wrote: >> 2012/1/7 Frank Shearar <[email protected]>: >>> On 7 January 2012 14:14, Nicolas Cellier >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> 2012/1/6 Lukas Renggli <[email protected]>: >>>>> On 6 January 2012 11:20, Peter Hugosson-Miller <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On 6 jan 2012, at 06:41, "Gerry Weaver" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. There appear to be some tool choices in the Pharo image. I would like >>>>>> to >>>>>> be able to create a class and it's methods in an editor in one go. I like >>>>>> being able to see all of the class code at once. Is there a way to do >>>>>> this? >>>>>> I just want to be able to type it all in and accept (evaluate?) all at >>>>>> once. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is an interesting question to me personally. After 15 years of >>>>>> working >>>>>> exclusively in Smalltalk I've recently been forced to start programming >>>>>> in >>>>>> Java, where the source code is always (as far as I know) arranged in the >>>>>> way >>>>>> you describe. >>>>>> >>>>>> This organization just emphasizes the dead and compiled nature of Java >>>>>> (and >>>>>> similar languages), compared to the living objects of Smalltalk, where >>>>>> even >>>>>> methods are objects, created by sending messages to other objects. Source >>>>>> code is relegated to being a mere artifact, which can be saved and >>>>>> organized >>>>>> in any way one wishes, and preferably never shows its ugly face to the >>>>>> coder >>>>>> :-p >>>>> >>>>> Which of course is no argument why Smalltalk code could not be >>>>> displayed in a more programmer friendly way as a continuous block of >>>>> text. There is no technical reason why source ranges in text box >>>>> couldn't correspond to life method objects. Compared to other >>>>> languages it is extremely tedious in Smalltalk to get an overview over >>>>> a project, a package, or even a single class or to navigate between >>>>> entities. >>>>> >>>>>> And yes, I really *really* miss a good, object oriented class browser! >>>>> >>>>> Eclipse is pretty good, especially with the Java Browsing Perspective. >>>>> >>>>> Lukas >>>>> >>>> >>>> As soon as you would display the code for many methods in a single text >>>> pane, >>>> you will find file-based-educated people making large refactorings in >>>> a single pass... >>>> Imagine this leads to many syntax errors, they will soon be willing to >>>> save their changes for a later rework... >>>> This would be a complete change in programming flow and if we really >>>> want to support this, we would have to: >>>> - add a way to save syntactically incorrect code >>>> - let IDE tools work on partially correct code (syntax highlighting, >>>> navigation, etc...) >>>> >>>> IMHO, these features add a lot of complexity... Is it really worth? >>>> I like the discipline of focusing on a single method until it is at >>>> least syntactically correct. >>> >>> The Pharo community has extremely limited resources so it seems quite >>> fair to me for Pharo to say "yes, but it's up to you because we have >>> no time". It _is_ very useful to be able to see and edit long reams of >>> text: my favourite text editor's been beaten on since the late 70s. It >>> is now very, very good at manipulating text, in multiple programming >>> languages, in multiple human languages, on many platforms. That I >>> can't use this text editor to manipulate a textual representation of >>> my favourite language is extremely annoying! >>> >>> frank >> >> Yeah, but my take was that re-inventing a very narrow subset of these >> 40 years old text editors in Smalltalk would likely be a failure... >> (or a big project) > > It would be a fairlly big piece of work although we do have lots of > pieces lying around: > * Coral's working on a scripting/REPL-like interface, > * the Common Lisp community has been using SLIME to provide a REPL to > a running image for years while also using files to store their code, > * we have Gitocello (which also translates Squeak/Pharo to gst), > * we have LanguageBoxes (*) allowing us to permit craziness like > storing code outside the image in one format without affecting the > entire language (letting us store Smalltalk code in something other > than chunk format) > > (*) watch this space: I'm making progress on breaking up the Helvetia > image into a bootstrappable bunch of packages
Did you commit your code somewhere ? Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/
