> > I think this attitude is what will continue to hold Pharo back from wider > adoption. I've found 1.4 to be unusable for daily development.
Why? We use it daily and not for toys application. All the Moose people are working using 1.4. Have you precise problems? > And yet there's no interest in fixing problems in 1.3. This is not that there is no interest. We do not have the time and there is too much. > As long as 1.4 is totally > experimental and not actually a productive environment, people who need to > get stuff done won't contribute to it. For the records, we are setting up a company around moose so we are not doing experimental things with 1.4 Our experimental things are not public. > That means that for the time being, > it's the five of you who know what you're doing that will make Pharo better. > It's all good to say, "complain less, patch more" (and I totally agree with > it), but often times the person "complaining" is trying to figure out how to > get going so they can solve their own problem! sure > And lest you think I don't want to contribute, I'll point you to > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4549&can=1&q=test%20runner&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Summary%20Milestone%20Difficulty Thanks > > where I > a) submitted a bug report > b) included a video demonstrating the bug > c) included a patch fixing the bug > > responses were > - "not a showstopper -> move it to 1.4" > - "for me the bug entry is not really relevant" > > seven months later it finally made its way in. > > I can see saying, "move it to 1.4" if 1.4 is right around the corner. But > it's seven months later and there's no 1.4 release and I'm personally still > very confused as to what versions of stuff people actually use. some people use 1.3 some 1.4 (for example I guess that pinesoft is in 1.4) we are in closing 1.4 but there are concerns that forced us to consider to delay a bit 1.4 Now I want that we go beta. > Presumably some people use 1.4 else it wouldn't be under "active > development," but for > actually getting stuff done, are people on 1.3? Or do people use 1.4 to get > stuff done? Both. > Feel free to write me off, but I'm telling you this as someone who loves > smalltalk and pharo and really wants to see it win and receive wider > adoption. And I imagine that you guys do too, especially since more people > using pharo = more people contributing to pharo. > But right now the pharo ecosystem is so fragmented, what let you say that? > and I feel like the development process is > totally opaque, what are your questions? so that we reply :) > and exclusive to the few people who get together in lille > for the sprints or whatever. Not really. This is simple. There is a bug we fix it and we harvest it after some can pass under our radar. > I mean really, someone says they *can't run > tests*, *submits a patch*, and gets a "fuck you" response? Did we say fuck you? I do not think so. Now when we are in crunch release time we stop integrating simple fixes. > No wonder there's > so little contribution from outside the core group of developers. This is not true. We never meet vanbecman, pavel, you and a lot more this is just that you do not see our lives here. Because Pharo is not our job :) only the one of igor but he is rather busy with graphics and VM and other stuff. > As long as 1.3 is the prime time release - i.e. the release suitable for > active development - you have to support it and care about the people using > it. This is not some backward compatibility thing. It's a daily usability > thing. You can't tell people, "yeah that is fixed, but only in 1.4, but 1.4 > isn't really ready for you to use yet." Yes. Now if you patch works well for you you can also load it and you can also gently remind us that this fix is easy to integrate and that we forgot. Pat if one day you can make it for ESUG or for a visit at Paris you are invented to visit us. For example this week I'm traveling 4 days and I have 6 Phds students to work with and a lot lot lot more things that I must do. > And if I submit a patch for 1.3, > then accept the damn patch for 1.3. Don't tell me "it'll go into 1.4" when I > can't even use 1.4 myself. That's how you alienate users and keep the > community tiny. Don't take it like that. Give us a 5 min chance and consider the other side of the fence. We are working on improving our commit process so that we have less boring work to do. But to do that it means quite some work behind the scene to load, run, report, save, publish… and handle code that does not load load but crash…. Stef > > Pat > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Bug-Tracker-Issues-tagged-1-3-tp4416469p4436606.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >
