Hi Stef, I think Pharo is really neat. I have nothing against it except for the "we are cool, you are not" attitude which I perceive at times. I have no interest in chopping on the great work being done by you and my other friends in Pharo, but that doesn't mean it is feasible for me to use it in my business. While someone in the Pharo community said FileSystem over FileDirectory is "huge", I see it as an incremental API change, and close to being a matter of preference.
> Now just out of curiosity do you use Pharo ;D I do not use Pharo anymore. I tried for a while but the IDE was difficult for me to work in and there was no reward for constant patching of my packages just to stay working. I saw how decisions which can have significant repercussions on low-level parts of the code-base are made with such little debate. I have business to run myself, this approach is untenable for me. Squeak's philosophy fits me just right. I will be watching Pharo with great interest. If it settles down someday, and I need to start up a brand new Smalltalk project which has no need for Magma or Maui, I will give Pharo another look. This thread is about the old debate about backward-compatibility, my position should not be surprising. On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <[email protected]> wrote: > Come on, chris. Are you getting nervous, tired, bored? Because we are cool > and positive thinking :). > We are not reinventing the past, believe me - I never saw a objectecentric > debugger, a bootstrapped kernel > and a lot more….:) > > May be you did not read my FAST Pharo presentation or the ESUG one but we > want to get > more business around Pharo and we are doing it. > > In addition we are creating a real company (and probably another in the > future) and we are really aware about what is to really getting work done. > You know Moose is probably one of the most complex Pharo application around. > Now we do not want to live in a place where each time we open a browser on > something we cry. > Why because at the end it will kill us. If we cannot innovate and go fast > with Smalltalk then better > code in Java or Javascript. > > This is why we removed FileDirectory (note that camillo nicely proposed a > compat package), systemEventNotifier…. > > Esteban could port Pier and Seaside to Pharo 1.4 in a couple of hours. > We have pier running in 2.0. > > Now just out of curiosity do you use Pharo ;D > > Stef > > > >> If my goal is to make my computer work for ME, then I want my >> development system to maximize my leverage and minimize my effort. >> Breaking compatibility for cleaner code subverts this, as Hannes said, >> >>>> Constant input in maintenance effort is needed. >> >> I want to use my time applying Smalltalk to real-world problems, not >> API changes. >> >> A blue-plane innovation is worth breaking backward compatibility, >> reinventing the past isn't. >> >> >>>> maintaining libraries and maybe compatibility layers are very welcome. >>>> >>> Yes, and how did we ever thought we could invent the future with Squeak >>> when in reality, we could not even change a typo in a comment? >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
