On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 2:52 AM, CodeDmitry <dimamakh...@gmail.com> wrote: > @kilon.alios > > [1] > I like C++/CLI more than C# because it is very refreshing to use a > language capable of using managed memory and unmanaged memory. > > I am too used to being in languages where garbage collection is > forced on you and everything must be done via new or stack types > such as Java, most scripting languages; > Or using languages where static-types are forced on you and > heavily encouraged over dynamic types. > > I feel very "free" when I write C++CLI, as it can do everything > C# can(although many things are admitably harder), but it can also > call C when it feels like it. > > [2] > If you want to get more users, I hope you are checking the things > people are saying about Smalltalk. > > In my class last week, the general concensus was that > "Smalltalk is dead, why are we studying this useless language".
This article is about Lisp, but the same applies to Smalltalk... http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html University is not just about spitting you out able to operate the latest fashionable tools, which may change in five years anyway. Its about *stretching* your mind in different directions by exposure to *different* paradigms. Smalltalk's immersive programming within an environment of live and persistent objects is about as different as you can get from the conventional file based programming. If they've not grokked this "blub" aspect of Smalltalk due to short-sighted negative approach then they are missing a learning opportunity. After University, work/life pressures provide less opportunity to learn such different paradigms - so you may be forever blind to them. The only languages worth learning are those that change the way you *think* about programming. As for why Smalltalk didn't hit mainstream yet? It seems more a failure of business strategy than technical fundamentals in a time when the Internet was changing the nature of the world - including programming with free tools and open source collaboration. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyIsSmalltalkDead > > Personally, I really enjoy the environment, but I feel that the > environment would do better from giving existing users a reason > to tell their friends about Pharo, and to like the language. > > There are many things that relate to this > > 1. Reasons to be excited about Pharo/Smalltalk > - It is a system where you can modify the system within the system. > - It has a very simple syntax, which is capable of doing things as > powerful as JavaScript. > - It is easy to get on Windows(3 minute download self contained)... > - It has pretty powerful prototyping means, but it's not quite as > powerful as > it could be. One way to improve this would be to add a morph editor > similar to > VB6. Morphs are somewhat scary to new users right now, and I feel they > stand a bit > further than where AWT/Swing is in terms of difficulty getting > started, even > if it is not necessarily true. > > 2. Quality of Life > - Blocks the GUI thread in strange scenarios: It's really aggrevating > when > it does this; when you type in code, the GUI should not freeze! > - Make it a bit easier to remove morphs(Pit of least astonishment, shift > alt click > is not obvious, and morph that consists of many morphs is somewhat > hard to select > the parent morph, so you have to delete the child morph then shift alt > click the > same place to select the underlying morph(eg grids). > - More themes! > - I know you're going to hate me for this but... It's a bit annoying to > install > Pharo on 64-bit Linux right now... This is a high priority and a 64-bit is imminent. > - It is kind-of hard to understand what .image, .changes, and .sources > are and > the material online isn't very exhaustive on their responsibilities. > To date I > am not actually sure what purpose .sources serves. For each Pharo Release the .changes file that has been running during development is condensed to a static .sources file, so that the Release has an empty .changes files. So only user changes show up in .changes. > - It's too easy to put Pharo into inconsistant state where it harasses > you with > popups. It should be easier to access the "undo whatever I just did > please", whether > it is editing of code, or running a code, I am not sure how easy this > is but at the > moment, it's not as up-front as it could be; It's scary when you do > something and > your environment starts yelling at you. (Maybe we could use some > Toasts instead of > Popups?). With great power comes great responsibility ;) Yes it can be tough as a newcomer when you don't know where the traps are. Something more to help recovery would be useful. > - Is there a Pharo alternative to JavaScript timeouts? Can you describe Javascript timeouts? > > That is all I could think of for now, probably not going to help you much > but I wanted > to give my 1/1000 of a cent. Thanks for your feedback. It is good to get a newcomers perspective. Some of these are know issues that we get used to and work around because we balance them off against other "blub" benefits of the environment, which newcomers might not stick around long enough to discover if the entry friction is too high. cheers -ben
