We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same
and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped.
And only bad OOP programmers count number of classes!!!!
Now I will not reply to provocation. So I just trashed this thread
because it goes nowhere.
Sorry constructivism criticisms from people that already commited and
helped is something positive.
But in this thread I only read in inverse and I will let you with it
and keep my good energy for it .


On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:53 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users
<pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Benoit St-Jean <bstj...@yahoo.com>
> To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Where do we go now ?
> Hello guys,
> Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I 
> really don't know where we're heading.
> When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean 
> up* of all the code, especially Morphic.  The promise of a new, clean & lean 
> Smalltalk attracted a lot of people.  And then...
> I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're 
> heading.  Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger.  I don't 
> mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools 
> but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated.
> Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ?  
> Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 
> compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ?  Do we really need 8 delay schedulers 
> (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, 
> DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, 
> DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ?  
> Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ?  Do we really 
> need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et 
> cetera.  I could go on, and on, and on...
> Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 
> 7612 classes.  Can you see a trend?
> Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. 
> Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings.  Can you see a trend?
> Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 
> alpha has a 47.97 MB image.  Can you see a trend?
> Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code.  
> Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to 
> come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the 
> time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess 
> classes).
> You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes 
> or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the 
> image ?  Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a 
> looooooong time ago anyway!
> You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents 
> mechanism or convert everything to announcements?
> UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ?  Athens?  Something else?
> You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes 
> or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the 
> image ?  Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a 
> looooooong time ago anyway!
> So what's the plan?  For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser 
> or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus 
> will be deprecated?  Or should I just don't care because a third system 
> browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one 
> too!" ?
> Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an 
> external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks 
> do?  If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine!  Then just 
> get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if 
> someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the 
> same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load 
> from a parcel!
> Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system 
> browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer.  Did we 
> include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later?  Is Calypso just a proof of 
> concept?  Is it just an optional tool?  What about all those delay schedulers?
> "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work".  Should I 
> help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the 
> corresponding framework in Pharo?
> Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's 
> the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us.
> -----------------
> BenoƮt St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)

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