Hi Scott, I am very impressed, the only thing I would add is that Edison blue amberol cylinders come in shades that range from light blue to navy blue and some are dark purple. Edison also made lighter purple cylinders as part of the Royal purple records, the numbers are 29000 series. Regular blue amberols are 1500 to 5719.
Steve > >Here's how you can tell the cylinders apart. > >Brown wax or celluloid = two min (Brown celluloid are Lamberts) > >Pink celluloid = two min Lamberts > >Black celluloid = two or four min - 2 min black celluloid are Lamberts >or some Inestructibles (2M on rim) The 4 min Indestructibles will say >4M on rim. There are no 4 min Lamberts > >Black wax = All 4 min black wax have flat rims and are imprinted with >title information on rim and are mostly Edison. They will say 4M on rim >(There are two-min Edison wax with semi-flat edges, which if you look >closely, these will be different from the 4 min flat rims and have no >title information) > >Blue celluloid - 99% of these are Edison 4min Blue Amberols. There are >some 2M but these are rare (Language or other rare titles) There are >some 4M Indesturctibles, but these are almost grey in appearance. There >are some 2M but these are rare. > >I hope this helps. > >If anyone has additional info or can correct me, please do. > >Regards, > >Scott. > >--- [email protected] wrote: > > > Send Phono-L mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Phono-L digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. identifying 2min or 4 min records (John Keister) > > 2. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (Ron L'Herault) > > 3. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (Robert Wright) > > 4. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (Steven Medved) > > 5. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records ([email protected]) > > 6. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (Steven Medved) > > 7. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) > > (bruce78rpm) > > 8. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) (Dan > > Kj-) > > 9. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) > > ([email protected]) > > 10. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (George) > > 11. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) (Dan > > Kj-) > > 12. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) > > (Robert Wright) > > 13. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) > > (Steven Medved) > > 14. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (Jim Nichol) > > 15. Re: identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. Everlasting) > > ([email protected]) > > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:01:38 -0500 > > From: "John Keister" <[email protected]> > > Subject: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <001101c5f77b$357b5380$bd01a...@johnkeister> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hey, everybody, > > there are lots of cylinder records available on e-bay but the sellers > > don't know if the records are 2 minute or 4 minute. my question is, > > how can you tell the difference? gold moulded, blue amberol, etc. > > John > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:48:25 -0500 > > From: "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > If you can compare two known cylinders a 2 and a 4 minute, you will > > see that > > the 4 minute recordings have a much finer groove. Once you have got > > that in > > you mind, you can tell from looking. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of John Keister > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:02 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > > > > > Hey, everybody, > > there are lots of cylinder records available on e-bay but the sellers > > don't > > know if the records are 2 minute or 4 minute. my question is, how > > can you > > tell the difference? gold moulded, blue amberol, etc. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > Phono-L Archive > > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:01:37 -0600 > > From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Just throwing this out there as a newbie to cylinder purchases > > myself... > > John, did you mean something more along the lines of issue numbers > > and > > series? I know I surely can't tell cylinder groove pitch from a > > low-quality > > jpeg taken from 3 or 4 ft away, and (estate) sellers who sell groups > > of > > cylinders per lot often take a picture from 6 ft away of a stack of > > cylinders in and out of cases! There are sellers who take such > > fabulous > > pictures, there's no way to mistake 2- and 4-minute, but those > > sellers are > > usually thorough enough to include 2- or 4- in their descriptions. > > > > Here's what I (think I) know so far: all brown wax cylinders are > > 2-minute > > and all Blue Amberolas are 4-minute... right? And Indestructibles > > have 2M > > or 4M printed on the edge with the title... right? Can someone help > > us > > out? I'm probably doing more harm than good! > > > > I've been wanting to ask this for a while myself. Thanks, John, and > > thanks > > in advance to anyone kind enough to fill in the holes! > > > > Best to all, > > Robert > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 2:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > > > > > > If you can compare two known cylinders a 2 and a 4 minute, you will > > see > > that > > > the 4 minute recordings have a much finer groove. Once you have > > got that > > in > > > you mind, you can tell from looking. > > > > > > Ron L > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of John Keister > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:02 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > > > > > > > > Hey, everybody, > > > there are lots of cylinder records available on e-bay but the > > sellers > > don't > > > know if the records are 2 minute or 4 minute. my question is, how > > can you > > > tell the difference? gold moulded, blue amberol, etc. > > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Phono-L Archive > > > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Phono-L Archive > > > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:18:52 -0500 > > From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > Edison made a Spanish series blue amberol that says 2M on the top, > > 1200 > > series. Blue amberols have a plaster of paris core, the early ones > > were > > coated and the plaster appears dark. Some 2M Indestructibles do not > > have 2M > > on them. If you have questions contact me off list and I will > > answer. > > [email protected] The best way for eBay is to have the seller send > > a > > close up photo of the top and the grooves. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > >Here's what I (think I) know so far: all brown wax cylinders are > > 2-minute > > >and all Blue Amberolas are 4-minute... right? And Indestructibles > > have 2M > > >or 4M printed on the edge with the title... right? Can someone > > help us > > >out? I'm probably doing more harm than good! > > > > > >I've been wanting to ask this for a while myself. Thanks, John, and > > thanks > > >in advance to anyone kind enough to fill in the holes! > > > > > >Best to all, > > >Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:36:05 EST > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2005 4:20:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > Some 2M Indestructibles do not have 2M > > > on them > > > > > ************ > > no Indestrucibles (metal rings), as far as I know, say "2 M." > > > > All of the 4 min style Indestructibles do say "4M" > > > > US Everlastings are marked either 2M or 4M, if I recall. > > > > Allen > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:44:51 -0500 > > From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > Thanks, Allen, none of mine had it, but I don't have many so I really > > > > appreciate your post. My US Everlasting of Cleveland are marked 2M > > or 4M, > > these sound very good. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > Some 2M Indestructibles do not have 2M > > > > on them > > > > > > >************ > > >no Indestrucibles (metal rings), as far as I know, say "2 M." > > > > > > All of the 4 min style Indestructibles do say "4M" > > > > > > US Everlastings are marked either 2M or 4M, if I recall. > > > > > >Allen > > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:06:00 -0500 > > From: "bruce78rpm" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <007e01c5f78c$94d38760$6401a...@custom> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > I have always been intrigued by the exceptional sound of the U.S. > > Everlasting Cylinders. I only own a couple of them with the 2 > > minute"The > > Fireman's Song" #235 by Hamilton Hill an absolutely remarkable > > performance > > with loud splendid baritone voice, band, galloping horses effect, > > clanging > > bells, and cheering crowd. Was it ever revealed just why this > > company's > > cylinders produced such superior volume compared to Edison or > > Columbia? > > > > Bruce > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:44 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > > > > > > Thanks, Allen, none of mine had it, but I don't have many so I > > really > > > appreciate your post. My US Everlasting of Cleveland are marked 2M > > or 4M, > > > these sound very good. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:13:21 -0500 > > From: "Dan Kj-" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <002501c5f795$fd4236d0$6500a...@new> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > > reply-type=original > > > > Well, Charles Hibbard was the sound engineer & Albert Benzler was > > musical > > director, and both came from Edison. They must have gained some > > important > > knowledge & perhaps improved on it. Knowing that the Everlasting > > celluloid > > records could stand up under heavier use, I imagine they knew they > > could cut > > them with more amplitude and they wouldn't wear out, the way loud wax > > > > cylinders did. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "bruce78rpm" <[email protected]> > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 5:06 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > > > > > >I have always been intrigued by the exceptional sound of the U.S. > > > Everlasting Cylinders. I only own a couple of them with the 2 > > minute"The > > > Fireman's Song" #235 by Hamilton Hill an absolutely remarkable > > performance > > > with loud splendid baritone voice, band, galloping horses effect, > > clanging > > > bells, and cheering crowd. Was it ever revealed just why this > > company's > > > cylinders produced such superior volume compared to Edison or > > Columbia? > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:33:03 EST > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2005 6:14:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > Knowing that the Everlasting celluloid > > > records could stand up under heavier use, I imagine they knew they > > could cut > > > them with more amplitude and they wouldn't wear out, > > > > > *********** > > It is remarkable that only US Everklasting made cylinder records > > out of > > flat sheets of celluloid rather than tubes. If you look closely, you > > can still > > see the ends where they butt each other down the length of the > > record. > > > > Allen > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:26:25 -0500 > > From: "George" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <075a01c5f78f$6f78d120$cfa24...@office> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > I would agree with Allen. My understanding is that > > anything black will be marked "4M". If no mark > > such mark is found on the end than they are 2 min. > > cylinders. As for all Blue Amberolas being 4 min. > > I believe I was told one time there were a few > > that were actually 2 min. Personally I've never > > run across any and would assume there are uncommon > > so would not be concerned with that issue. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min > > records > > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2005 4:20:03 PM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > Some 2M Indestructibles do not have 2M > > > on them > > > > > ************ > > no Indestrucibles (metal rings), as far as I > > know, say "2 M." > > > > All of the 4 min style Indestructibles do say > > "4M" > > > > US Everlastings are marked either 2M or 4M, if > > I recall. > > > > Allen > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > Phono-L Archive > > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 11 > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:59:21 -0500 > > From: "Dan Kj-" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <000901c5f7a4$cc5fe120$6500a...@new> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > > reply-type=original > > > > Luckily, I've had only one (so far) which has split the seam ! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[email protected]> > > > > >> > > > *********** > > > It is remarkable that only US Everlasting made cylinder records > > out of > > > flat sheets of celluloid rather than tubes. If you look closely, > > you can > > > still > > > see the ends where they butt each other down the length of the > > record. > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 12 > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 19:14:06 -0600 > > From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Thanks for the great info, everyone! Sounds like I need to get my > > hands on > > some 4M Everlastings pretty quick. Is there a resource online to > > check > > catalog numbers against years of issue, 2- or 4-minute, various > > series > > issued, various brands, etc.? I have a wonderful Humphrey recitation > > that > > Wayne Holznagel was kind enough to send me, BA 1608, called "Luke," > > that has > > absolutely stunning fidelity; you can hear every pronounciation of > > "s", "t", > > and "sh" just about as clear as if the man were standing in the room. > > I > > wondered what year and what series it might belong to, as I'd sure > > like to > > get a bunch more of similar sound quality. > > > > Thanks again, > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dan Kj-" <[email protected]> > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > > > > > > Luckily, I've had only one (so far) which has split the seam ! > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> > > > > *********** > > > > It is remarkable that only US Everlasting made cylinder records > > out of > > > > flat sheets of celluloid rather than tubes. If you look closely, > > you can > > > > still > > > > see the ends where they butt each other down the length of the > > record. > > > > > > > > Allen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Phono-L Archive > > > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 13 > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:50:49 -0500 > > From: "Steven Medved" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > I have one that reverted to being a flat sheet. It is amazing, they > > seemed > > to have perfected the celluloid record surface, volume and not much > > surface > > noise. > > > > Steve > > > > >*********** > > > It is remarkable that only US Everklasting made cylinder records > > out of > > >flat sheets of celluloid rather than tubes. If you look closely, you > > can > > >still > > >see the ends where they butt each other down the length of the > > record. > > > > > >Allen > > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 14 > > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 00:07:01 -0500 > > From: Jim Nichol <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records > > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > > Robert and George: It's a minor point, but there is no such thing as > > > > a cylinder called an Amberola or a Blue Amberola. A 4-minute Edison > > > > cylinder is an Amberol (black wax) or Blue Amberol. The word > > Amberola is ONLY used for phonographs, not records. > > > > Jim Nichol > > > > On Dec 2, 2005, at 5:26 PM, George wrote: > > > > > I would agree with Allen. My understanding is that > > > anything black will be marked "4M". If no mark > > > such mark is found on the end than they are 2 min. > > > cylinders. As for all Blue Amberolas being 4 min. > > > I believe I was told one time there were a few > > > that were actually 2 min. Personally I've never > > > run across any and would assume there are uncommon > > > so would not be concerned with that issue. > > > George > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 15 > > Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:09:47 EST > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] identifying 2min or 4 min records (U.S. > > Everlasting) > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2005 11:51:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > I have one that reverted to being a flat sheet. It is amazing, > > they seemed > > > to have perfected the celluloid record surface, volume and not much > > surface > > > noise. > > > > > ********** > > at one point, inventors Balm and Harris had contemplated inserting > > collapsible celluloid cylinders in boxes of cereal, to be > > reconstituted by placing a > > core within, after opening. None of these have been found, but there > > was such a > > brown celluloid shell placed over a wax center, a merging of the two > > methods. > > > > Many of the technical details (and patents) on the development of > > indestructible cylinders can be found in PHP. > > > > Allen > > www.phonobooks.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l > > > > > > End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 2, Issue 240 > > *************************************** > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >_______________________________________________ >Phono-L mailing list >[email protected] > >Phono-L Archive >http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
