Your best bet is to contact Paul Edie, the owner of the Cictor Victrola site.He's the guy who's keeping the data on all of the Victor Victrolas that anyone wants to give him data on.
Catch him on: http://www.victor-victrola.com/ Try and have the patent sticker date, as well as rthe serial number of the Victrola. It appears that all of the VV-XVIII were identical, only for cabinet woods, and so on. I have a feeling that the Elecrola variants still had their serial numbers in the sequence with the other jobs. I'm also beginning to be (pleasantly) surprised at how many of these great Victrolas have survived. > [Original Message] > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > Date: 11/9/2009 2:47:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > If anyone is interested in compiling data on them, I have three Victrola > XVIIIs, two windup & one with electric motor, all mahogany, as follows: > VV-XVIII - # 988, VE-XVIII - # 1194 & VV-XVIII - # 1695 > > Ji > m Cartwright > > Imm > ortal Performances > > > [email protected] > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Douglas Houston <[email protected]> > > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > > Date: 07-Nov-2009 4:07:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > That's Paul Edie.He lives near my place, in Troy, Mich. Unfortunately, > Paul > > doesn't publish his data base. It would be interesting to know how many of > > the Vic 18 phonos have survived. There seems to be quite a few, > > fortunately. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Charlotte Mager <[email protected]> > > > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > > > Date: 10/22/2009 7:33:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by > > going > > > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > > > > > Charlotte aka Waves > > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a > > buildup > > > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by > my > > > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as > were > > > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > > > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > > time > > > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on > > the > > > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was > exposed. > > > > > > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to > remove > > > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further > and > > > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some > areas, > > the > > > > finish is as new. > > > > > > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > > phonographs. > > > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and > were > > > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > > > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > > > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area > has > > a > > > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > > > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > > > > > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > > > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A > > few > > > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it > > had an > > > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and > the > > > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > > > > > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, > checking > > > > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the > > Go-Jo > > > > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never > seen > > a > > > > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it > going. I > > > > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > > From: Andrew Baron <[email protected]> > > > > > To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > > > > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this > visitor > > > > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > > > > soon regain its. > > > > > > > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > > > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > > > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > > > > realize just > > > > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > > > > regardless of > > > > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > > > > spring was > > > > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over > with > > > > > > Go-Jo > > > > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > > > > >> From: Mobility Scooters <[email protected]> > > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> > > > > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Andy > > > > > >> Great story! > > > > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > > > > >> must of > > > > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > > > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > > > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for > the > > > > > >> rest > > > > > > of > > > > > >> your life. ha ha > > > > > >> All the very best > > > > > >> Tony > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > > >> From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected] > > > > > >> ]On > > > > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > > > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > > > > >> Ken B. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > > >> From: [email protected] > > > > [mailto:[email protected] > > > > > >> ] > > > > > > On > > > > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > > > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > >> > > > > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading > of > > > > > >> some > > > > > > of > > > > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > > > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either > > more > > > > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > > > > >> Santa Fe, > > > > > > NM. > > > > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > > > > >> sparsely > > > > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > > > > >> other work > > > > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > > > > >> Add to > > > > > > this > > > > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or > prioritized > > > > > >> for > > > > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few > phonographs > > > > > >> to > > > > > > begin > > > > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > > > > Standards, > > > > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are > inevitably > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > > > > >> not out > > > > > > of > > > > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought > here > > > > > >> later > > > > > > on, > > > > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, > and > > > > > >> there > > > > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That > > being > > > > > > said, > > > > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > > > > >> Edison > > > > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > > > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population > > 72,000. > > > > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > > > > geographically > > > > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > > > > >> brought here > > > > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To the subject at hand: > > > > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their > annual > > > > > >> Fall > > > > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half > of > > > > > >> Santa > > > > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > > > > >> until > > > > > > late > > > > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what > the > > > > > >> shop > > > > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > > > > >> nice, > > > > > > but > > > > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > > > > >> so no > > > > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when > the > > > > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > > > > >> the next > > > > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where > > we > > > > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > > > > >> that I'd > > > > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > > > > >> casually > > > > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things > toward > > > > > >> the > > > > > > next > > > > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are > going > > > > > >> to be > > > > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", > than > > > > > >> I could > > > > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > > > > >> sticking out > > > > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > > > > >> mind to > > > > > > see > > > > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond > my > > > > > >> powers > > > > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > > > > >> although I > > > > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > > > > >> phono-L > > > > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the > top > > > > > >> curl > > > > > > of > > > > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > > > > >> bashing the > > > > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the > > fine, > > > > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped > veneer > > > > > >> pattern > > > > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > > > > >> front of > > > > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in > > New > > > > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well > aware > > > > > >> of the > > > > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my > own > > > > > >> eyes. > > > > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > > New > > > > > > Mexico > > > > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its > edges > > > > > >> and > > > > > > trim > > > > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > > > > >> good and > > > > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off > upper > > > > > >> rear > > > > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's > phonograph > > > > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > > > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > > > > >> Original gold V key; > > > > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front > and > > > > > >> back; > > > > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but > still > > > > > > sitting > > > > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; > > Near > > > > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > > > > >> Exhibition > > > > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > > > > >> lid and > > > > > > in > > > > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > > > > >> storage > > > > > > area > > > > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical > records, > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the > lower > > > > > >> key > > > > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent > corner > > > > > >> curl). > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Sold! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > > > > intimately > > > > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model > is > > > > > >> so > > > > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a > > respectable > > > > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > > > > >> grease and > > > > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the > back > > > > > >> with > > > > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came > as a > > > > > > complete > > > > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > > > > >> relatively > > > > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > > > > >> film of > > > > > > old > > > > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent > places, > > > > > >> and a > > > > > >> light coat of fresh > > > > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > > > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > > > > >> awful > > > > > > when > > > > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- > down > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > > > > >> number of > > > > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > > > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production > total > > > > > >> (Roman > > > > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth > of > > > > > >> one > > > > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and > less > > > > > >> than > > > > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > > > > >> math > > > > > >> right. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > > > > >> gold- > > > > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the > broken- > > > > > >> off > > > > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of > the > > > > > > cabinet. > > > > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a > key > > > > > >> escutcheon? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > > > > accurately > > > > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries > for > > > > > >> those > > > > > > of > > > > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Kindest regards, > > > > > >> Andy Baron > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > NEW ADDRESS > > > Showplace Antique Center > > > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > > > NY NY 10010 > > > t. 212-273-9616 > > > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > > > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
