Here's a company still making phonograph needles and tins:
http://www.axfil.fr/needle/needle-phonograph.htm#Sp > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:42:52 -0600 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > > Probably sent to Japan or Germany. > > Ron L'Herault wrote: > > No, and I did try and interest a company in making them. If you do a patent > > search, you will find the machines developed to shear the tungsten wire and > > swage it into the end of the needles shank too. The machines had to have > > been made. I wonder if they fell victim to scrap metal drives or something. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Albert > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:37 PM > > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > > > > Are tungstone needles being reproduced today for commercial sale? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Ron L'Herault > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:34 AM > > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > > > > I believe Victor also mentions using the lead out groove for shaping the tip > > of the Tungstone. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Greg Bogantz > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:06 PM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > Yes, that's right. There was no shaping of the end of the wire on > > Victor Tungstones. I just confirmed that by looking at a couple of NOS > > Tungstones that I have. The wire was sheared to essentially a flat end > > shape. Victor advised playing a junk record first to shape the end of the > > wire before using a new needle to play good records. Likewise, Victor > > advised reshaping the needle by playing a junk record if the user ever > > removed the needle and then remounted it in the reproducer. The wire wears > > into the shape of the groove in just a minute or so of play, so the initial > > shape of it is irrelevant. > > > > I failed to comment earlier specifically on the claim that osmium and other > > hard needles could be removed and remounted without a problem. This is NOT > > correct, for the same reason that Victor advised reshaping their tungsten > > needles if they were remounted. The needle tip wears into the "V" shape of > > the groove fairly quickly, depending on the hardness of the needle. > > Remounting the needle with exactly the same orientation as when it was > > removed is almost impossible. After remounting, there is a very high > > probability that the misoriented needle will severely gouge the record for a > > > > while until it is reformed to fit the groove, the moreso with the harder > > needles. This is not so much of a problem with the tungsten wire needles as > > > > they can be reformed in only about a minute of play with a junk record. > > > > Greg Bogantz > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Kocsis" <[email protected]> > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > > > > > >> Thank you, Greg! > >> > >> Are you saying that tungsten wire shaped needles are just clipped lengths > >> of tungsten wire, without a point being formed on them before being used > >> to play a record? > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> Greg Bogantz wrote: > >>> Osmium tipped needles were a transitional style. They were the > >>> cheapest "permanent" needle typically marketed in the late 1930s thru the > > > >>> '50s. The more expensive varieties of "permanent" needles were sapphire > >>> or ruby and the most expensive were diamond. People were using record > >>> changers and didn't want to mess around with changing steel needles all > >>> the time, so these styles became popular. The problem with all of these > >>> needles in that time period is that the pickups tracked at too high a > >>> force for any of them to be optimal with regard to record wear. The > >>> magnetic and crystal pickups of that period typically tracked at between > >>> 30 and 80 grams. Although that's less than the 80 to 150 grams of the > >>> earlier acoustic reproducer period, it's still just too high for any of > >>> these hard needles. They were especially deadly when used with the early > > > >>> vinyl 78s that were beginning to appear after WWII. The proper > >>> technology for high tracking forces was the steel or tungsten wire needle > > > >>> when used with shellac records that contained abrasive fillers that were > >>> intended to quickly wear the needle into conformance with the groove > >>> shape. But, of course, the steel needles needed to be changed with every > > > >>> record side or two. Tungsten WIRE shaped needles are superior to the > >>> osmium tipped needles because the cylindrical wire shape retains the same > > > >>> cross-sectional area during the entire lifetime of the needle. The > >>> osmium needles were tapered and as they wore they got a bigger cross > >>> section. This is fine until the cross section gets too big to fit into > >>> the groove width which happens after just a few records are played. Then > >>> the needle forms shoulders that ride outside the groove and on the land > >>> of the record. This lifts the needle out of close contact with the > >>> groove walls which leads to mistracking, distortion, and high record > >>> wear. These hard needles, especially the sapphire and diamond ones don't > > > >>> wear down quickly, and instead wear the records. These needles that were > > > >>> typical in this time period are the main reason that records that have > >>> survived from the '30s thru the '50s look worn and sound more distorted > >>> and worn than records that have survived from the teens and '20s and that > > > >>> were played properly with steel or tungsten wire needles. The use of > >>> these hard needles only became proper when pickup tracking forces were > >>> reduced to 10 grams or less in the 1950s. I don't feel comfortable using > > > >>> them even above about 5 grams. Tracking forces of 1 to 2 grams became > >>> commonplace in the early 1960s, and jewel-tipped needles are perfectly > >>> satisfactory when used in these pickups. > >>> > >>> The bottom line is, I would NOT recommend using hard needles in any > >>> pickup tracking at more than 10 grams if you want to preserve your > >>> records. When new, these needles will sound good for a while. But they > >>> will be grinding the bejeezus out of your records if you are tracking > >>> them at 30 grams or more. If you have a jukebox or record changer that > >>> operates at high tracking force, use tungsten wire needles. Or change > >>> the pickup (and tonearm if necessary) to allow tracking forces below 10 > >>> grams if you want to use jewel-tipped needles. Osmium would also work in > > > >>> this application, but it will wear out after 20 sides or so, even at this > > > >>> tracking force. Osmium is just a bad idea for just about any > >>> application. > >>> > >>> Greg Bogantz > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kocsis" <[email protected]> > >>> To: <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:47 PM > >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Coin machine or jukebox needles? > >>> > >>> > >>>> Can anyone give me the lowdown on jukebox needles? I bought some new > >>>> old stock Cole's coin machine needles with osmium tips. The package > >>>> says the needle lasts many plays and doesn't have to be rotated. I'm > >>>> also curious about the shape of the needle. A couple of millimeters up > >>>> from the point, the metal is flattened into a pointed oval like a cobra > >>>> head and then resumes being cylindrical. What is that for? > >>>> > >>>> Osmium is nearly as hard as tungsten and I've seen some references to > >>>> people cutting their own needles from tungsten wire and forming the > >>>> point by rubbing the cut end in a record groove while rotating it (which > > > >>>> seems astonishing). > >>>> > >>>> Is such hardness a good idea in a needle, or does it cause excessive > >>>> record wear? > >>>> If these jukebox needles are safe to use, how do I tell when it's time > >>>> to change one? > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> > >>>> Chris > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Phono-L mailing list > >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. 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