On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I am really furious now, and this is why:
> * People here seem to read things here VERY selectively. On August 4th I
> submitted a first proposal, and Rasmus (and ONLY Rasmus) had some problems
> with it, being that this would break BC if ppl rely on the reproducibilty of
> rand() sequences. THAT WAS THE ONLY COMMENT I GOT.

    As I stated earlier, in most projects I have seen, discussions form around
    patches, very rarely do discussions form around abstract ideas (well
    productive discussions anyway).

> * On August 22th, I announced to branch ext/standard to start implementing
> HAVE SAID IT AT THAT MOMENT. You couldn't have missed the announcment, since
> there was a small discussion with Zeev about the branching.

    Yes, you branched it, but my impression, and the impression of other
    people was that you never had a finished body of code for us to test
    (and it seems you still didn't, as the code you committed to the
    main branch broke the compile).

> * On August 26th, (subject "rand() redesign - please read") I announced that
> the code was alread looking like something, i.e. the general idea was
> already clear. I also referred AGAIN to my second proposal.
> Again, nobody had problems with it.

    No, we may just have not responded to your message or read it, as you
    said, you have a life outside of PHP; so do I.  There are times when
    I can focus my attention on PHP (like the last couple of days I've
    had a pretty nasty cold, so its given me time to get work done), and then
    there are times when I can't, when work/friends/life get in the way.

> * On September 3rd, I merged it into MAIN. And now, suddenly everybody has
> problems with both semantics and implementation. I'm stunned. And angry.

    As Rasmus said, when you commit something to the main branch people
    take notice, if you commit something to a branch (unless of course
    its a release branch), people make it a secondary priority.  I still
    haven't taken a look at the Zend Engine 2 branch and the new object
    model, except to merge some changes into it.  That's a much more
    major set of changes than the rand redesign as well.  When I get the
    time, I'll take a look, and believe me, if Andi has done something
    stupid (no offense Andi :), I'll speak up then, even if the code he
    committed is 5 months old at the time...

> All the time from August 22th until September 3rd, you also could have seen
> CVS-commit messages on PHP-CVS.
> If people are TOO LAZY to read ANY of these mails, they LOOSE IMO the right
> to comment to the code as it is today on a way that is done now. I have NO
> PROBLEM at all when ppl say something like "On line 123 of rand.c, you do
> something like this-and-this, wouldn't that-and-that be more
> efficient/better/elegant/whatever. But I DO HAVE PROBLEMS with the reaction
> I got so far.

    We do have the right to comment on your code, whenever we feel like.  If
    you write incorrect code (which didn't even compile btw), don't expect me
    to stay quite, cause I didn't make the comments when you would've liked
    them made.  If in two months from now, I saw this commit, and saw what you
    did, I would still reccomend reverting it -- not because I don't like you,
    or respect the time that you put into it, but rather because from a
    technical standpoint its incorrect.

    The problem with what you committed is not as simple as line 123 has
    something wrong.  Lines 1 - sizeof(commit) have something wrong.
    That's why I'm not suggesting you just change line 123, but rather
    revert the commit.  The design is incorrect and the code is imho poorly

    How is it in PHP's interest to have code in the repository that's
    poorly written?  Does it really matter when we comment on the code?
    The fact remains -- your code is incorrect.  Whether we comment on
    it now, or in two years from now, has no bearing on whether or not
    it should be in the code repository (not taking into account the BC
    portion of the equation).

    People work hard and get patches rejected all the time, heck with
    APR (Apache Portable Runtime), even patches that are correct get
    turned down, simply because the patch that is sent (or commited), is
    too long for a proper review.  In a perfect world, would you have
    gotten this feedback as you went along, perhaps, but this isn't a perfect
    world, people are busy, and have other things to do.  The fact is
    your getting this feedback now, and you have seem to have no
    arguments to technically backup your commit.

    This is nothing against you personally, I'm not meaning to attack
    you, but if the code doesn't jive, it shouldn't be in the
    repository, I'm sorry if you feel like you've wasted effort, but
    that doesn't change the facts.


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