php-general Digest 9 Nov 2007 10:48:28 -0000 Issue 5118
Topics (messages 264245 through 264262):
Re: PHP ide?
264245 by: Instruct ICC
264246 by: Børge Holen
264247 by: Robert Cummings
264253 by: Instruct ICC
264254 by: Robert Cummings
264256 by: Instruct ICC
264262 by: Lester Caine
Re: PHP ide? OT
264248 by: Børge Holen
264249 by: Børge Holen
264250 by: Robert Cummings
264261 by: Børge Holen
Creating PDF files with more than one font?
264251 by: Shelley Shyan
264258 by: George Pitcher
264259 by: Shelley Shyan
264260 by: George Pitcher
Re: Recommend a wiki?
264252 by: Daevid Vincent
Re: PHP ide? Back On Topic
264255 by: Instruct ICC
264257 by: Larry Garfield
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--- Begin Message ---
> > > > > Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ta,
> > > > >
> > > > > H.
> > > >
> > > > Quanta +, of course.
> > > > Other is to much work and not worth the effort...
> > > > I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse, it's a
> > > > mistake all together
> > >
> > > I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you guys see in
> > > an IDE :B
> >
> > I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse
> > http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)
>
> umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em discoveries
> they've made to save the f* day. ;D
Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.
_________________________________________________________________
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:
> > > > > > Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ta,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > H.
> > > > >
> > > > > Quanta +, of course.
> > > > > Other is to much work and not worth the effort...
> > > > > I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse, it's a
> > > > > mistake all together
> > > >
> > > > I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you guys see
> > > > in an IDE :B
> > >
> > > I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse
> > > http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)
> >
> > umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em discoveries
> > they've made to save the f* day. ;D
>
> Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.
oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on tersus beeing
eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on the
homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
> http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmail
>news
--
---
Børge Holen
http://www.arivene.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 00:28 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:
> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:
> > > > > > > Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ta,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > H.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quanta +, of course.
> > > > > > Other is to much work and not worth the effort...
> > > > > > I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse, it's a
> > > > > > mistake all together
> > > > >
> > > > > I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you guys see
> > > > > in an IDE :B
> > > >
> > > > I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse
> > > > http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)
> > >
> > > umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em discoveries
> > > they've made to save the f* day. ;D
> >
> > Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.
>
> oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on tersus beeing
> eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on the
> homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
Cheers,
Rob.
--
...........................................................
SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com
Leveraging the buying power of the masses!
...........................................................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for the crap below. I think it's MS Hotmail not playing nice with Safari.
Eclipse and Netbeans (now it may look like I'm pushing Java) have offerings to
allow us developers to build upon -- not just apps, but tools. I think that's
a good thing.
"Don't reinvent the wheel" is another good practice to build upon the work of
others.
Where would this forum be without the web?
Where would the web be without the internet?
Where would the internet be without Al Gore? ;-P
Where would Debian be without Linus?
Where would Linus be without GNU?
Blah blah blah...electricity
You see where I'm going.
----------------------------------------> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL
PROTECTED]> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:28:59 +0100> Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP ide?>>
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:>>>>>>> Just wondering
if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ta,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
H.>>>>>>>>>>>> Quanta +, of course.>>>>>> Other is to much work and not worth
the effort...>>>>>> I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in
eclipse, it's a>>>>>> mistake all together>>>>>>>>>> I use JOE of course. I
really can't see what so many of you guys see>>>>> in an IDE :B>>>>>>>> I'm
waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse>>>> http://www.tersus.com --
Go there with FF)>>>>>> umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag
bout em discoveries>>> they've made to save the f* day. ;D>>>> Not mine. But if
you do Java, that's your bogey.>> oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or
less commented on tersus beeing> eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch
fails to state on the> homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without
debian".>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>> Boo! Scare
away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!>>
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmail>>news>>>>
--> ---> Børge Holen> http://www.arivene.net>> --> PHP General Mailing List
(http://www.php.net/)> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php>
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble
challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 19:06 -0800, Instruct ICC wrote:
> Sorry for the crap below. I think it's MS Hotmail not playing nice with
> Safari.
>
> Eclipse and Netbeans (now it may look like I'm pushing Java) have offerings
> to allow us developers to build upon -- not just apps, but tools. I think
> that's a good thing.
>
> "Don't reinvent the wheel" is another good practice to build upon the work of
> others.
>
> Where would this forum be without the web?
> Where would the web be without the internet?
> Where would the internet be without Al Gore? ;-P
>
> Where would Debian be without Linus?
> Where would Linus be without GNU?
>
> Blah blah blah...electricity
>
> You see where I'm going.
You forgot Adam and Eve ;)
Cheers,
Rob.
--
...........................................................
SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com
Leveraging the buying power of the masses!
...........................................................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>>> Blah blah blah...electricity
>>>> You see where I'm going.
>> You forgot Adam and Eve
For those who believe "You see where I'm going".
For the others, you get vacuum fluctuations LOL.
_________________________________________________________________
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Cummings wrote:
Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
Mandriva has Eclipse and PHPEclipse 'out of the box' along with Apache and PHP
I can build a fully functional development machine from a pile of bits in
under an hour ;)
And currently that includes downloading the latest updates :)
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:47:56 you wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 00:28 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:
> > On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:
> > > > > > > > Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ta,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > H.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Quanta +, of course.
> > > > > > > Other is to much work and not worth the effort...
> > > > > > > I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse,
> > > > > > > it's a mistake all together
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you guys
> > > > > > see in an IDE :B
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse
> > > > > http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)
> > > >
> > > > umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em
> > > > discoveries they've made to save the f* day. ;D
> > >
> > > Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.
> >
> > oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on tersus
> > beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on the
> > homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
>
> Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
you know, thats what I call BS.
if something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @ home.
Just look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian
maintainers 've a fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the maintainers
to get it into their own pool.
The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims to be more or
less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is a bitch who
noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell the new stuff
than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported programs. Just for
the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.
I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob.
--
---
Børge Holen
http://www.arivene.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday 09 November 2007 01:03:13 Børge Holen wrote:
> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:47:56 you wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 00:28 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:
> > > On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct ICC wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what ones?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ta,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > H.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Quanta +, of course.
> > > > > > > > Other is to much work and not worth the effort...
> > > > > > > > I really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse,
> > > > > > > > it's a mistake all together
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I use JOE of course. I really can't see what so many of you
> > > > > > > guys see in an IDE :B
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm waiting for Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse
> > > > > > http://www.tersus.com -- Go there with FF)
> > > > >
> > > > > umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout em
> > > > > discoveries they've made to save the f* day. ;D
> > > >
> > > > Not mine. But if you do Java, that's your bogey.
> > >
> > > oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on tersus
> > > beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on the
> > > homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
> >
> > Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
>
> you know, thats what I call BS.
> if something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @ home.
> Just look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian
> maintainers 've a fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the
> maintainers to get it into their own pool.
> The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims to be more
> or less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is a bitch
> who noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell the new
> stuff than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported programs.
> Just for the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.
momento that is
> I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Rob.
>
> --
> ---
> Børge Holen
> http://www.arivene.net
--
---
Børge Holen
http://www.arivene.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 01:03 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:
> > > oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on
> tersus
> > > beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on
> the
> > > homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
> >
> > Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
>
> you know, thats what I call BS.
> if something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @
> home.
> Just look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian
> maintainers 've a fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the
> maintainers
> to get it into their own pool.
> The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims to be
> more or
> less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is a
> bitch who
> noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell the
> new stuff
> than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported programs.
> Just for
> the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.
> I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.
Lol, Debian has a release cycle of 2 to 3 years. Ubuntu has a release
cycle of 6 months. Personally I like the fast and furious releases when
it's for my desktop. As for server needs... Debian is a better call for
it's stabilty. Either way you comment "It's like the ubunty hype, witch
fails to state on the homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without
debian" is a bit silly since Debian doesn't state "we're practically
nothing without the Linux kernel and GNU software". But I'll give you a
taste of what both do say:
Debian:
"Debian is a free operating system (OS) for your computer.
An operating system is the set of basic programs and
utilities that make your computer run. Debian uses the
Linux kernel (the core of an operating system), but most
of the basic OS tools come from the GNU project; hence
the name GNU/Linux."
Ubuntu:
"Ubuntu is a community developed, linux-based operating
system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and
servers. It contains all the applications you need - a
web browser, presentation, document and spreadsheet
software, instant messaging and much more."
Now analysis of the blurbs reveals that Debian attributes the Linux
Kernel and GNU whereas Ubuntu attributes the community at large. Ask
yourself which statement is more inclusive :) Community can easily be
taken to include the kernel community, the GNU community, the Debian
community and any other groups contributing. I'm sure this is the spirit
in which the word "community" is used. Whereas the Debian blurb is more
restrictive in it's interpretation. But don't get me wrong, I'm in no
way pointing fingers at Debian, they probably have more attributions
elsehwere as does Ubuntu. I just think it's silly to argue that Ubuntu
owes everything to Debian when Ubuntu, Debian, GNU, the Linux Kernel,
etc are all standing upon the shoulders of giants. And those giants are
the community of individuals and organizations that give their time and
resources to make it happen. There's nothing stopping Debian from
integrating things in Ubuntu, that's the spirit of open source and
sharing.
Cheers,
Rob.
--
...........................................................
SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com
Leveraging the buying power of the masses!
...........................................................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday 09 November 2007 02:05:32 you wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 01:03 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:
> > > > oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I more or less commented on
> >
> > tersus
> >
> > > > beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype, witch fails to state on
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without debian".
> > >
> > > Ubuntu = Debian + New Life
> >
> > you know, thats what I call BS.
> > if something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @
> > home.
> > Just look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian
> > maintainers 've a fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the
> > maintainers
> > to get it into their own pool.
> > The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims to be
> > more or
> > less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is a
> > bitch who
> > noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell the
> > new stuff
> > than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported programs.
> > Just for
> > the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.
> > I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.
>
> Lol, Debian has a release cycle of 2 to 3 years. Ubuntu has a release
> cycle of 6 months. Personally I like the fast and furious releases when
> it's for my desktop. As for server needs... Debian is a better call for
> it's stabilty. Either way you comment "It's like the ubunty hype, witch
> fails to state on the homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without
> debian" is a bit silly since Debian doesn't state "we're practically
> nothing without the Linux kernel and GNU software".
We are talking distributions here, not os. Debian supports all these
underdogs, but ubuntu is the "hyped saviour". I also fail to the whatever the
release cycle got to do with... anything? You install once, shortly
thereafter you just upgrade now and then.
You want release cycles, go for the nighly builds. Count them, don't complain
because the debian team fail to see the importance of release cycles. I can
take a woody cd install and given the speed of this 100mbit line and 1.67 ghz
ppc, I would say 30~40 minutes later I would be running sid.
Now that would be fast and furious for you eh?
I bet I actually got all the "new" packages... like ff apache any sql whatever
on my testing approximatly 1 week before you got in on ubuntu. They are
sickly dependable on all the debian devs to fix their shit and keep theyre
hype.
> But I'll give you a
> taste of what both do say:
>
> Debian:
> "Debian is a free operating system (OS) for your computer.
> An operating system is the set of basic programs and
> utilities that make your computer run. Debian uses the
> Linux kernel (the core of an operating system), but most
> of the basic OS tools come from the GNU project; hence
> the name GNU/Linux."
>
> Ubuntu:
> "Ubuntu is a community developed, linux-based operating
> system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and
> servers. It contains all the applications you need - a
> web browser, presentation, document and spreadsheet
> software, instant messaging and much more."
Everybody loves raymond.
>
> Now analysis of the blurbs reveals that Debian attributes the Linux
> Kernel and GNU whereas Ubuntu attributes the community at large. Ask
> yourself which statement is more inclusive :) Community can easily be
> taken to include the kernel community, the GNU community, the Debian
> community and any other groups contributing. I'm sure this is the spirit
> in which the word "community" is used. Whereas the Debian blurb is more
> restrictive in it's interpretation. But don't get me wrong, I'm in no
> way pointing fingers at Debian, they probably have more attributions
> elsehwere as does Ubuntu. I just think it's silly to argue that Ubuntu
> owes everything to Debian when Ubuntu, Debian, GNU, the Linux Kernel,
> etc are all standing upon the shoulders of giants. And those giants are
> the community of individuals and organizations that give their time and
> resources to make it happen. There's nothing stopping Debian from
> integrating things in Ubuntu, that's the spirit of open source and
> sharing.
Why would debian intergrate things in ubuntu, they run ubuntus show right now.
Thats why all the ubuntu ppl are harrassing the debian mailinglist... oh wait,
much like this.
Time to get back to work... cheers btw =D
>
> Cheers,
> Rob.
--
---
Børge Holen
http://www.arivene.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I want to create a pdf file with several fonts. Which tool is better, pdflib,
ezpdf, ....?
Any suggestions?
Regards,
Shelley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I want to create a pdf file with several fonts. Which tool is
> better, pdflib, ezpdf, ....?
> Any suggestions?
I can't say which is better, but I use ezpdf and have been able to do
multi-font stuff so that I can match corporate styles.
George in Edinburgh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I often see that it uses .afm files, can it use .ttf format files?
If yes, how to?
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Shelley
-----Original Message-----
From: George Pitcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:38 PM
To: Shelley Shyan; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] Creating PDF files with more than one font?
> I want to create a pdf file with several fonts. Which tool is better,
> pdflib, ezpdf, ....?
> Any suggestions?
I can't say which is better, but I use ezpdf and have been able to do
multi-font stuff so that I can match corporate styles.
George in Edinburgh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've only used .afm. I seem to recall that there was a conversion utility
available.
George
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shelley Shyan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 9 November 2007 8:16 am
> To: George Pitcher; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [PHP] Creating PDF files with more than one font?
>
>
> I often see that it uses .afm files, can it use .ttf format files?
>
> If yes, how to?
> Thank you very much.
>
>
> Regards,
> Shelley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Pitcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:38 PM
> To: Shelley Shyan; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [PHP] Creating PDF files with more than one font?
>
> > I want to create a pdf file with several fonts. Which tool is better,
> > pdflib, ezpdf, ....?
> > Any suggestions?
>
> I can't say which is better, but I use ezpdf and have been able
> to do multi-font stuff so that I can match corporate styles.
>
> George in Edinburgh
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have had 'Trac' thrust upon me by an employee/coworker and while it is not
"perfect" (or even close to it), it does what it does, and it does it pretty
well.
http://trac.edgewall.org/
Some of my favorite things about it are:
Wiki is pretty common tags
(http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/WikiFormatting)
Subversion integration with diff, view source, and
svn commit hooks ("fixes, references, etc")
You can integrate SQL 'reports' and the Wiki together. This rocks!
Ticket tracking
Roadmap graphs
Plugins
Can have different 'Tracs' setups on same server (I run two - biz
and personal)
On the negative side:
It is a little tricky to install IMHO.
It uses SQLlite (this is a pro and a con at the same time)
doesn't seem to be updated with any frequency or regularity
it's not even a 1.0 -- but that's all the rage with the kids it
seems
v0.11 is due "any day now"
all written in python (yuk)
Tickets are sort of cumbersome
and they store the TEXTUAL names rather than relations. *sigh*
(for example, if you change an employee,
you have to search and replace the NAME,
not just a 'user' relational link) .WTF.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you pay for Ubuntu? Maybe a support package?
Earlier this week I was pissed at Adobe Dreamweaver CS3 and their developers.
And I began thinking that the major difference between open source software
(free as in no $ outa my pocket) and retail closed source software is that
maybe, just maybe, I have someone to complain to about their bugs in the retail
case, and should just be thankful I have an ordered set of bits given to me for
free in the open source case that sometimes gets the job done (not to mention
sometimes getting support, community, knowledge, etc.).
I tend to fall back to DW -- currently CS3, but I'm always looking around. It
crashed on a paste attempt after a simple plain text copy.
The DW 8 developers didn't know how to use threads (and threads were hyped in
that version). They would run a thread to block my current requested action to
do something locally by doing something remote (which I state again, I did not
request. If you insist on doing the remote action which I didn't request, it's
perfect for a thread, so please put it in the background.)
I think I prefered DW MX 2004 over DW MX. 8 had a nice "fold your source
wherever you want" feature though.
I was interested in CS3 for the Spry, but it's weak. Back to basic hand coding
with YUI, Scriptaculous, Xajax, etc. using DW basically as an editor and FTP
client.
Oh and Crimson Editor when I was on MS Windows for Perl files which DW couldn't
deal with.
I use Xcode on the Mac for Perl files now. I should also start using Xcode for
PHP projects.
My (perceived) problem is that I need a tool that helps me do my job well, but
not so well that it looks like I can be replaced. I'm telling you that Tersus
scares me [and I will not tell my employer about it LOL]. gi.tibco.com will be
my next real evaluation for an IDE at work. At home I'll spend my time on
Tersus. Except I'm into a project at home now that is easier if I use what I
know.
I just looked at Eclipse PDT (due to this topic and its posts). It looks like
a text editor with possible project grouping of files. What do I gain by using
it?
Aptana is okay for Ajaxy javascript and html (and I think PHP). It's Eclipse
again though LOL. I just don't like when I feel constrained and can't
absolutely place a widget (like you can in MS Visual Basic). Netbeans Matisse
(it has a new name now) can do it, but it deploys to Java. Delphi for PHP
(retail product) looks good, but its MS Windows only. And although I can use a
VM, I'd rather stay away from MS products. Sun Java Studio Creator can, but
it's Java again.
What do you want in an integrated development environment?
I would expect Zend Studio to be _the_ PHP IDE, but it doesn't meet what I want
in an IDE.
I want to "just model" like Gentleware's Poseidon. Maybe some UML; maybe just
Tersus.
I want to refactor like Sun Java Studio Enterprise.
I want to layout my GUI like VB, Matisse, and Apple's Interface Builder.
I want to remote debug like Zend Studio.
I have an extensive list I made in 2006 that would make this post even longer.
So I know I'm missing some features.
And I want it all for free as in beer and no $ out of my pocket (to use
personally).
Well, if neccessary, I'll also have the company pay for it and expect to be
able to use it at home like the DW licenses.
And I'll still be looking around for the next best thing.
----------------------------------------> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL
PROTECTED]> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 01:03:13 +0100> Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP ide?
OT>> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:47:56 you wrote:>> On Fri, 2007-11-09 at
00:28 +0100, Børge Holen wrote:>>> On Friday 09 November 2007 00:03:32 Instruct
ICC wrote:>>>>>>>>> Just wondering if anyone uses an IDE and if so what
ones?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ta,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quanta +, of
course.>>>>>>>> Other is to much work and not worth the effort...>>>>>>>> I
really cannot see what so many of you guys see in eclipse,>>>>>>>> it's a
mistake all together>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use JOE of course. I really can't see what
so many of you guys>>>>>>> see in an IDE :B>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm waiting for
Tersus4PHP (which is basically Eclipse>>>>>> http://www.tersus.com -- Go there
with FF)>>>>>>>>>> umm yeah right, some create and some steal and brag bout
em>>>>> discoveries they've made to save the f* day. ;D>>>>>>>> Not mine. But
if you do Java, that's your bogey.>>>>>> oh no, I wasn't hinting your way, I
more or less commented on tersus>>> beeing eclipse. It's like the ubunty hype,
witch fails to state on the>>> homepage: "we're practically NOTHING without
debian".>>>> Ubuntu = Debian + New Life>> you know, thats what I call BS.> if
something fails to do anything by itself.. it should've stayed @ home.> Just
look at patches and fixes. They only deliver when the debian> maintainers 've a
fix ready, and between 2 days to a week for the maintainers> to get it into
their own pool.> The reason is simple... Hype! they sell a product witch claims
to be more or> less a lifestyle of simplicity like osx, however maintenance is
a bitch who> noone wants to ride, and the few who works on buntu rather sell
the new stuff> than fixing bogus, tiresome and lenghty faults on imported
programs. Just for> the sake of some rich dude that feels he need a momentum.>
I'm really getting it out now, cleaning the pipes you can say.>>>>> Cheers,>>
Rob.>>>> --> ---> Børge Holen> http://www.arivene.net>> --> PHP General Mailing
List (http://www.php.net/)> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php>
_________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday 08 November 2007, Instruct ICC wrote:
> Do you pay for Ubuntu? Maybe a support package?
>
> Earlier this week I was pissed at Adobe Dreamweaver CS3 and their
> developers. And I began thinking that the major difference between open
> source software (free as in no $ outa my pocket) and retail closed source
> software is that maybe, just maybe, I have someone to complain to about
> their bugs in the retail case, and should just be thankful I have an
> ordered set of bits given to me for free in the open source case that
> sometimes gets the job done (not to mention sometimes getting support,
> community, knowledge, etc.).
In my case, it's entirely different. Too many proprietary software companies
are locking down their software too far for me to be comfortable with. DRM,
product activation, region coding, forced-subscriptions... "The more you
tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more software users will slip through your
fingers." There's still a very small number of non-free programs I use, but
they're being replaced as quickly as I can with something open source and at
least passable. I simply don't trust code that tries to fight me.
*snip lots of talk about Dreamweaver et al*
> I just looked at Eclipse PDT (due to this topic and its posts). It looks
> like a text editor with possible project grouping of files. What do I gain
> by using it?
>
> Aptana is okay for Ajaxy javascript and html (and I think PHP). It's
> Eclipse again though LOL. I just don't like when I feel constrained and
> can't absolutely place a widget (like you can in MS Visual Basic).
If you want to absolutely control layout, don't bother designing for the
web. :-)
> Netbeans Matisse (it has a new name now) can do it, but it deploys to Java.
> Delphi for PHP (retail product) looks good, but its MS Windows only. And
> although I can use a VM, I'd rather stay away from MS products. Sun Java
> Studio Creator can, but it's Java again.
>
> What do you want in an integrated development environment?
>
> I would expect Zend Studio to be _the_ PHP IDE, but it doesn't meet what I
> want in an IDE.
That's because Zend Studio (which is one of the few proprietary programs that
I feel tempted to use personally, as I use it at work and love it) is a
programmer's IDE. It's for people writing code. From the sound of it,
you're looking for a designer's IDE, for doing things graphically.
There's nothing wrong with that, mind you. Not in the least. But it's a
different sort of task, and requires a different sort of tool.
> I want to "just model" like Gentleware's Poseidon. Maybe some UML; maybe
> just Tersus. I want to refactor like Sun Java Studio Enterprise.
> I want to layout my GUI like VB, Matisse, and Apple's Interface Builder.
Then you don't want to be working in HTML.
> I want to remote debug like Zend Studio.
That is easily my #1 favorite feature. :-) The only worthwhile
context-sensitive code-assistance I've yet to find would be a close second.
But I highly doubt you'll find a first-class PHP code IDE (Zend Studio) that
is also a first-class HTML layout tool (Dreamweaver).
--
Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
Jefferson
--- End Message ---
