php-general Digest 21 Oct 2012 22:02:36 -0000 Issue 8017
Topics (messages 319537 through 319543):
Re: User Timezone
319537 by: Karl DeSaulniers
319538 by: Ashley Sheridan
319539 by: Samuel Lopes Grigolato
319540 by: Matijn Woudt
319541 by: Samuel Lopes Grigolato
319543 by: tamouse mailing lists
Re: Table help needed
319542 by: tamouse mailing lists
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
php-general-digest-subscr...@lists.php.net
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
php-general-digest-unsubscr...@lists.php.net
To post to the list, e-mail:
php-gene...@lists.php.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 21, 2012, at 5:01 AM, Maciek Sokolewicz wrote:
On 21-10-2012 01:11, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
Thanks for the response. Yes, for the US I plan on calculating by
state, but
this website is not geared to just the US.
So I am looking for a solution that lets me also calculate by
country/region.
Was looking on google and found geoip, but not sure if this will do
the job
I am looking for.
Anyone with experience on geoip that can send pointers?
Thanks,
Best,
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com
Geo IP is based on IP, and I must warn you that IP data is not
always
accurate. Especially here in Europe, companies that are based in
multiple countries sometimes only register their IPs in a single
country, and share them between all the countries they are active
in.
This will give you wrong data from GeoIP. The time difference will
only be 1 hour at max, but still.
That was what my own suspicions were leading to.
I am familiar with the fact that ips can be spoofed.
Thanks for the corroboration.
Best,
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com
As Bart said, IP is not ideal for this situation.
Since you do have information about the location of that person (as
in country and possible state), you can find out the timezone via a
static database.
The HTML5 geolocation tool is nice, and would certainly help a lot!
However, be aware of the fact that it only works if there is the
device on which the browser runs actually has the ability to find
out its location. Many smartphones have GPS chips, but most PCs
don't. Asking a PC "where are you located?" the PC will answer "How
should I know?".
Luckily for you, the way of country and state is pretty easy. I've
handed you a list to find it in the USA. For most countries in the
world, there's a simple 1:1 mapping of timezone and country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones_by_country
), there are however 21 countries which have multiple timezones. In
these cases, you'll need extra information to be able to distinguish
between them.
For the USA, you already have a way.
For (ex-)colonical islands and such (such as for France), you could
always add them to the country list:
- France
- France (Marquesas Islands)
- France (Gambier)
etc.
Thus treating them as separate countries for your timezone db.
In Russia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brasil, Indonesia,
Kiribati, Mexico,Congo, Ecuador, Micronesia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia
you'll need to know their province / state to more accurately assess
the ideal timezone.
So for most countries, it's a simple 1:1 translation. For the above
countries, you'll need some extra info, and translate further based
on that. You should be able to find the info required yourself, it
just takes a while to collect it.
Alternatively, and this is the most simple way; since you're asking
people for their country and such, simply also ask them about their
timezone. Don't bother automating and putting a heck of a lot of
time into hard to realize solutions, when you can ask a very simple
and easy-to-answer question to the browser instead. :)
- Tul
Yes, I had thought about asking the user his/her timezone, but being
that the product will be bought by some people who may have no idea, I
figured I would try and see if I can set it up myself.
Maybe if the country has a province, i could ask the user then what
province and get my 1:2 that way. If it is a country I can get the
timezone for, just skip that question.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Best,
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Karl DeSaulniers <k...@designdrumm.com> wrote:
>
>On Oct 21, 2012, at 5:01 AM, Maciek Sokolewicz wrote:
>
>> On 21-10-2012 01:11, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the response. Yes, for the US I plan on calculating by
>>>>> state, but
>>>>> this website is not geared to just the US.
>>>>> So I am looking for a solution that lets me also calculate by
>>>>> country/region.
>>>>> Was looking on google and found geoip, but not sure if this will
>do
>>>>> the job
>>>>> I am looking for.
>>>>> Anyone with experience on geoip that can send pointers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Karl DeSaulniers
>>>>> Design Drumm
>>>>> http://designdrumm.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geo IP is based on IP, and I must warn you that IP data is not
>>>> always
>>>> accurate. Especially here in Europe, companies that are based in
>>>> multiple countries sometimes only register their IPs in a single
>>>> country, and share them between all the countries they are active
>>>> in.
>>>> This will give you wrong data from GeoIP. The time difference will
>>>> only be 1 hour at max, but still.
>>>
>>>
>>> That was what my own suspicions were leading to.
>>> I am familiar with the fact that ips can be spoofed.
>>> Thanks for the corroboration.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Karl DeSaulniers
>>> Design Drumm
>>> http://designdrumm.com
>>>
>>
>> As Bart said, IP is not ideal for this situation.
>>
>> Since you do have information about the location of that person (as
>> in country and possible state), you can find out the timezone via a
>> static database.
>>
>> The HTML5 geolocation tool is nice, and would certainly help a lot!
>> However, be aware of the fact that it only works if there is the
>> device on which the browser runs actually has the ability to find
>> out its location. Many smartphones have GPS chips, but most PCs
>> don't. Asking a PC "where are you located?" the PC will answer "How
>> should I know?".
>>
>> Luckily for you, the way of country and state is pretty easy. I've
>> handed you a list to find it in the USA. For most countries in the
>> world, there's a simple 1:1 mapping of timezone and country
>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones_by_country
>> ), there are however 21 countries which have multiple timezones. In
>> these cases, you'll need extra information to be able to distinguish
>
>> between them.
>>
>> For the USA, you already have a way.
>> For (ex-)colonical islands and such (such as for France), you could
>> always add them to the country list:
>> - France
>> - France (Marquesas Islands)
>> - France (Gambier)
>> etc.
>> Thus treating them as separate countries for your timezone db.
>>
>> In Russia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brasil, Indonesia,
>> Kiribati, Mexico,Congo, Ecuador, Micronesia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia
>
>> you'll need to know their province / state to more accurately assess
>
>> the ideal timezone.
>>
>> So for most countries, it's a simple 1:1 translation. For the above
>> countries, you'll need some extra info, and translate further based
>> on that. You should be able to find the info required yourself, it
>> just takes a while to collect it.
>>
>> Alternatively, and this is the most simple way; since you're asking
>> people for their country and such, simply also ask them about their
>> timezone. Don't bother automating and putting a heck of a lot of
>> time into hard to realize solutions, when you can ask a very simple
>> and easy-to-answer question to the browser instead. :)
>>
>> - Tul
>
>
>Yes, I had thought about asking the user his/her timezone, but being
>that the product will be bought by some people who may have no idea, I
>
>figured I would try and see if I can set it up myself.
>Maybe if the country has a province, i could ask the user then what
>province and get my 1:2 that way. If it is a country I can get the
>timezone for, just skip that question.
>Thanks for the thoughts!
>
>Best,
>
>Karl DeSaulniers
>Design Drumm
>http://designdrumm.com
Don't most browsers include this information in the HTTP headers?
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry if it's to dumb or hacky solution, but can't you just create a Date
with JavaScript and send it with your request in a hidden field? You could
guess the timezone with this date and the server's one.
I don't know what you're going to do with this info, just be aware that if
the users clock is wrong intentionally or not, this will obviously not work
correctly. Although I think (just an assumption) that 99% of user's clock
are in fact, correct.
Another thing I'm thinking now is for users out on a travel, if they aren't
in their home, you will get a "wrong" date.
I'm with Maciek on this, TimeZones doesn't change a lot, it's not too
difficult to develop a simple "from/to" database based on the country and
state/province names. You may even start a Open Source project and get
collaborators to help maintain this database on an open format (okay, maybe
this is not going to happen, maybe).
Cheers,
Samuel.
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Ashley Sheridan
<a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk>wrote:
>
>
> Karl DeSaulniers <k...@designdrumm.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >On Oct 21, 2012, at 5:01 AM, Maciek Sokolewicz wrote:
> >
> >> On 21-10-2012 01:11, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks for the response. Yes, for the US I plan on calculating by
> >>>>> state, but
> >>>>> this website is not geared to just the US.
> >>>>> So I am looking for a solution that lets me also calculate by
> >>>>> country/region.
> >>>>> Was looking on google and found geoip, but not sure if this will
> >do
> >>>>> the job
> >>>>> I am looking for.
> >>>>> Anyone with experience on geoip that can send pointers?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Karl DeSaulniers
> >>>>> Design Drumm
> >>>>> http://designdrumm.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Geo IP is based on IP, and I must warn you that IP data is not
> >>>> always
> >>>> accurate. Especially here in Europe, companies that are based in
> >>>> multiple countries sometimes only register their IPs in a single
> >>>> country, and share them between all the countries they are active
> >>>> in.
> >>>> This will give you wrong data from GeoIP. The time difference will
> >>>> only be 1 hour at max, but still.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That was what my own suspicions were leading to.
> >>> I am familiar with the fact that ips can be spoofed.
> >>> Thanks for the corroboration.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Karl DeSaulniers
> >>> Design Drumm
> >>> http://designdrumm.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> As Bart said, IP is not ideal for this situation.
> >>
> >> Since you do have information about the location of that person (as
> >> in country and possible state), you can find out the timezone via a
> >> static database.
> >>
> >> The HTML5 geolocation tool is nice, and would certainly help a lot!
> >> However, be aware of the fact that it only works if there is the
> >> device on which the browser runs actually has the ability to find
> >> out its location. Many smartphones have GPS chips, but most PCs
> >> don't. Asking a PC "where are you located?" the PC will answer "How
> >> should I know?".
> >>
> >> Luckily for you, the way of country and state is pretty easy. I've
> >> handed you a list to find it in the USA. For most countries in the
> >> world, there's a simple 1:1 mapping of timezone and country
> >(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones_by_country
> >> ), there are however 21 countries which have multiple timezones. In
> >> these cases, you'll need extra information to be able to distinguish
> >
> >> between them.
> >>
> >> For the USA, you already have a way.
> >> For (ex-)colonical islands and such (such as for France), you could
> >> always add them to the country list:
> >> - France
> >> - France (Marquesas Islands)
> >> - France (Gambier)
> >> etc.
> >> Thus treating them as separate countries for your timezone db.
> >>
> >> In Russia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brasil, Indonesia,
> >> Kiribati, Mexico,Congo, Ecuador, Micronesia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia
> >
> >> you'll need to know their province / state to more accurately assess
> >
> >> the ideal timezone.
> >>
> >> So for most countries, it's a simple 1:1 translation. For the above
> >> countries, you'll need some extra info, and translate further based
> >> on that. You should be able to find the info required yourself, it
> >> just takes a while to collect it.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, and this is the most simple way; since you're asking
> >> people for their country and such, simply also ask them about their
> >> timezone. Don't bother automating and putting a heck of a lot of
> >> time into hard to realize solutions, when you can ask a very simple
> >> and easy-to-answer question to the browser instead. :)
> >>
> >> - Tul
> >
> >
> >Yes, I had thought about asking the user his/her timezone, but being
> >that the product will be bought by some people who may have no idea, I
> >
> >figured I would try and see if I can set it up myself.
> >Maybe if the country has a province, i could ask the user then what
> >province and get my 1:2 that way. If it is a country I can get the
> >timezone for, just skip that question.
> >Thanks for the thoughts!
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Karl DeSaulniers
> >Design Drumm
> >http://designdrumm.com
>
> Don't most browsers include this information in the HTTP headers?
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Maciek Sokolewicz
<maciek.sokolew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21-10-2012 01:11, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the response. Yes, for the US I plan on calculating by
>>>> state, but
>>>> this website is not geared to just the US.
>>>> So I am looking for a solution that lets me also calculate by
>>>> country/region.
>>>> Was looking on google and found geoip, but not sure if this will do
>>>> the job
>>>> I am looking for.
>>>> Anyone with experience on geoip that can send pointers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Karl DeSaulniers
>>>> Design Drumm
>>>> http://designdrumm.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Geo IP is based on IP, and I must warn you that IP data is not always
>>> accurate. Especially here in Europe, companies that are based in
>>> multiple countries sometimes only register their IPs in a single
>>> country, and share them between all the countries they are active in.
>>> This will give you wrong data from GeoIP. The time difference will
>>> only be 1 hour at max, but still.
>>
>>
>>
>> That was what my own suspicions were leading to.
>> I am familiar with the fact that ips can be spoofed.
>> Thanks for the corroboration.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Karl DeSaulniers
>> Design Drumm
>> http://designdrumm.com
>>
>
> As Bart said, IP is not ideal for this situation.
>
> Since you do have information about the location of that person (as in
> country and possible state), you can find out the timezone via a static
> database.
>
> The HTML5 geolocation tool is nice, and would certainly help a lot! However,
> be aware of the fact that it only works if there is the device on which the
> browser runs actually has the ability to find out its location. Many
> smartphones have GPS chips, but most PCs don't. Asking a PC "where are you
> located?" the PC will answer "How should I know?".
>
> Luckily for you, the way of country and state is pretty easy. I've handed
> you a list to find it in the USA. For most countries in the world, there's a
> simple 1:1 mapping of timezone and country
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones_by_country), there are
> however 21 countries which have multiple timezones. In these cases, you'll
> need extra information to be able to distinguish between them.
>
> For the USA, you already have a way.
> For (ex-)colonical islands and such (such as for France), you could always
> add them to the country list:
> - France
> - France (Marquesas Islands)
> - France (Gambier)
> etc.
> Thus treating them as separate countries for your timezone db.
>
> In Russia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brasil, Indonesia, Kiribati,
> Mexico,Congo, Ecuador, Micronesia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia you'll need to
> know their province / state to more accurately assess the ideal timezone.
>
> So for most countries, it's a simple 1:1 translation. For the above
> countries, you'll need some extra info, and translate further based on that.
> You should be able to find the info required yourself, it just takes a while
> to collect it.
>
> Alternatively, and this is the most simple way; since you're asking people
> for their country and such, simply also ask them about their timezone. Don't
> bother automating and putting a heck of a lot of time into hard to realize
> solutions, when you can ask a very simple and easy-to-answer question to the
> browser instead. :)
>
> - Tul
>
Don't forget that some countries have DST, and some don't. And those
that have DST, all use different dates.. So in to keep a static
database you would also need to have DST info from all countries.
- Matijn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Coincidentally, TODAY I had to adjust my clock one hour forward because of DST
(poor sleep =[). No so easy-to-solve problem, after all...
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Matijn Woudt [mailto:tijn...@gmail.com]
Enviada em: domingo, 21 de outubro de 2012 10:30
Para: Maciek Sokolewicz
Cc: Karl DeSaulniers; php-general
Assunto: Re: [PHP] Re: User Timezone
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Maciek Sokolewicz
<maciek.sokolew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21-10-2012 01:11, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the response. Yes, for the US I plan on calculating by
>>>> state, but this website is not geared to just the US.
>>>> So I am looking for a solution that lets me also calculate by
>>>> country/region.
>>>> Was looking on google and found geoip, but not sure if this will do
>>>> the job I am looking for.
>>>> Anyone with experience on geoip that can send pointers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Karl DeSaulniers
>>>> Design Drumm
>>>> http://designdrumm.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Geo IP is based on IP, and I must warn you that IP data is not
>>> always accurate. Especially here in Europe, companies that are based
>>> in multiple countries sometimes only register their IPs in a single
>>> country, and share them between all the countries they are active in.
>>> This will give you wrong data from GeoIP. The time difference will
>>> only be 1 hour at max, but still.
>>
>>
>>
>> That was what my own suspicions were leading to.
>> I am familiar with the fact that ips can be spoofed.
>> Thanks for the corroboration.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Karl DeSaulniers
>> Design Drumm
>> http://designdrumm.com
>>
>
> As Bart said, IP is not ideal for this situation.
>
> Since you do have information about the location of that person (as in
> country and possible state), you can find out the timezone via a
> static database.
>
> The HTML5 geolocation tool is nice, and would certainly help a lot!
> However, be aware of the fact that it only works if there is the
> device on which the browser runs actually has the ability to find out
> its location. Many smartphones have GPS chips, but most PCs don't.
> Asking a PC "where are you located?" the PC will answer "How should I know?".
>
> Luckily for you, the way of country and state is pretty easy. I've
> handed you a list to find it in the USA. For most countries in the
> world, there's a simple 1:1 mapping of timezone and country
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones_by_country), there
> are however 21 countries which have multiple timezones. In these
> cases, you'll need extra information to be able to distinguish between them.
>
> For the USA, you already have a way.
> For (ex-)colonical islands and such (such as for France), you could
> always add them to the country list:
> - France
> - France (Marquesas Islands)
> - France (Gambier)
> etc.
> Thus treating them as separate countries for your timezone db.
>
> In Russia, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brasil, Indonesia,
> Kiribati, Mexico,Congo, Ecuador, Micronesia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia
> you'll need to know their province / state to more accurately assess the
> ideal timezone.
>
> So for most countries, it's a simple 1:1 translation. For the above
> countries, you'll need some extra info, and translate further based on that.
> You should be able to find the info required yourself, it just takes a
> while to collect it.
>
> Alternatively, and this is the most simple way; since you're asking
> people for their country and such, simply also ask them about their
> timezone. Don't bother automating and putting a heck of a lot of time
> into hard to realize solutions, when you can ask a very simple and
> easy-to-answer question to the browser instead. :)
>
> - Tul
>
Don't forget that some countries have DST, and some don't. And those that have
DST, all use different dates.. So in to keep a static database you would also
need to have DST info from all countries.
- Matijn
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit:
http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 6:12 AM, Ashley Sheridan
<a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
> Don't most browsers include this information in the HTTP headers?
Not that i have seen. Quick test using nc:
Firefox:
tamara@caesar:~$ nc -l 3000
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: localhost:3000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:15.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/15.0.1
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Connection: keep-alive
Cookie: author=tamouse
^C
tamara@caesar:~$
Chromium:
tamara@caesar:~$ nc -l 3000
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: localhost:3000
Connection: keep-alive
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML,
like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.151 Chrome/18.0.1025.151
Safari/535.19
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate,sdch
Accept-Language: en-US,en;q=0.8
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.3
^C
tamara@caesar:~$
curl:
tamara@caesar:~$ nc -l 3000
GET / HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: curl/7.21.3 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.21.3
OpenSSL/0.9.8o zlib/1.2.3.4 libidn/1.18
Host: localhost:3000
Accept: */*
^C
tamara@caesar:~$
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:52 PM, admin <ad...@buskirkgraphics.com> wrote:
> I want to apologize for the comments that followed my reply, seems some
> people can't make constructive comments
> if their life depended on it.
So happy you've taken it upon yourself to right all the wrongs in the
world. Perhaps you can start by weeding your own garden.
> While the more complex version in PDO is the preferred method to obtain
> objects
> from mysql. This does require you to have the basic fundamentals of object
> oriented programming skills,
> which I am guessing at this point you do not have based on how the question
> was phrased.
Not really. Writing classes would definitely require OOP skills. Using
classes is quite another thing, and so much easier to get up on. The
documentation is full of examples on how to do this. Reflexively, none
of the lines containing PDO is any more complicated than making
procedure calls.
Compare mysqli procedural and object code, and PDO code:
procedural: $db = mysqli_connect($host,$user,$pass,$dbname);
object: $db = new mysql($host,$user,$pass,$dbname);
PDO: $db = new PDO("mysql:host=$host,dbname=$dbname",$user,$pass);
procedural: $result = mysqli_query($db,$sql);
object: $result = $db->query($sql);
PDO: $result = $db->query($sql);
procedural: $row = mysqli_fetch_row($result);
object: $row = $result->fetch_row();
PDO: $row = $result->fetch();
Or putting the result processing in a loop:
procedural: while ($row = mysqli_fetch_row($result)) { /* process row */ }
object: while ($row = $db->fetch_row($result)) { /* process row */ }
PDO: foreach ($result as $row) { /* process row */ }
Putting it linearly:
Procedural:
$db = mysqli_connect($host,$user,$pass,$dbname);
$result = mysqli_query($db,$sql);
while ($row = mysqli_fetch_row($result)) {
/* process row */
}
Object:
$db = new mysqli($host,$user,$pass,$dbname);
$result = $db->query($sql);
while ($row = $result->fetch_row()) {
/* process row */
}
PDO:
$db = new PDO("mysql:host=$host;dbname=$dbname",$user,$pass);
foreach (($db->query($sql)) as $row) {
/* process row */
}
*Really* not getting how PDO is more complicated.
> There are many people in the list who will gladly point you in the direction
> to learning aids and tutorials to get you started.
Apparently you aren't one of them.
* Link I posted a few days ago: http://www.phptherightway.com/
* http://devzone.zend.com/6/php-101-php-for-the-absolute-beginner/
** In particular: this page does *exactly* what the OP asked for: 3
column table of data:
http://devzone.zend.com/6/php-101-php-for-the-absolute-beginner/ (done
in the old mysql style)
* if watching videos is more one's style: http://phpacademy.org/tutorials.php
* if y'all like the about.com sites (I don't): http://php.about.com/
*IF*, however, the OP's stuckness is the result of not understanding
HTML <table> markup, then I have a whole different set of links:
* http://html.net/tutorials/html/lesson10.php - on making tables
* http://w3schools.com/html/html_tables.asp - the w3schools.com site
has tutorials on all kinds of webish stuff
Also, in general, http://www.webmonkey.com/ has provided many
beginners with a leg up on many different aspects of web development.
--- End Message ---