"Nathan Rixham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tony Marston wrote:
>> "Nathan Rixham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> a: Optional Static Typing
>>> I'm finding an ever increasingly need to be able to staticly type
>>> properties, parameters, return types etc (in classes) I know there is
>>> type hinting but it's just not enough to do what one needs. Additionally
>>> support for staticly typing primatives. Here's an example:
>>
>> If you really *need* to used a staticly typed language then don't use
>> PHP, and don't try to change PHP to match your needs.
>
> why not? php fills 95% of my needs in most instances, I'm as much a valid
> user of php as you and php *could* change to fit my needs and others, not
> without some appreciated work mind you, but it could (and without
> affecting anybody else in this case)
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH! You cannot change PHP from being dynamicly typed to
staticly typed without affecting 99% of the millions of programs which hav
already been written.
Personally I love the idea that a function's argument can be either a string
or an array (or whatever) as PHP makes it easy to detect what type it is,
and I can easily cast it to another type and deal with it as I see fit. This
to me is a GREAT ADVANTAGE and NOT a limitation.
> it's a simple need: if I can type that my variable can only contain an
> int, then I know it's always an int without tonnes of checks to check it
> actually contains an int / is getting set with an int throughout the rest
> of the app (especially when multiple dev's are working on it).
>
> additionally this functionality would open the door to the creation of a
> lot more apps and frameworks,
Not in my (not so humble) opinion.
> not least the ability to create decent ORM's.
Proper progammers do not need any steeenking ORMs.
> Further, it would allow people to contribute proper developers classes
> that can be re-used time and time again
Your definition of "proper" obviously disagrees with mine.
> (for instance a full set of collections [class, hashmap, map, list, set
> etc etc]). Once they're made and open source we all benefit, not only that
> but they could be made by users instead of the internals team ;)
>
>>> b: Object superclass
>>> A base class type which all objects automagically extend, with (if
>>> nothing else) a unique id / hashcode for each object (much like the Java
>>> Object class). Failing this some form of function to get a unique
>>> reference string for any variable. Example
>>
>> Why should each class automaticaly extend a base class? For what purpose?
>> For what benefit? I can achieve what I want without this *feature*, so I
>> don't need it.
>
> 2 reasons:
> 1: it would allow all objects to have this uniqueid/hashcode i need
> 2: it would allow one to type hint Object in methods (you currently
> can't) - you can method(array $var) but not method(object $var) see:
>
> <?php
> class Example {
> public function someMethod(object $arg0) {
> }
> }
>
> $e = new Example();
> $e->someMethod( (object)'y' );
> ?>
> returns: Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to
> Example::someMethod() must be an instance of object
>
>> Why does each object need a unique id/hashcode? I have been using objects
>> for years without this so it is not necessary, and does not provide any
>> additional functionality.
>
> for comparison of equality, so you can make indexed arrays quickly using
> the hashcode (you know like a hash table) so you can quickly tell the
> difference between two instances of the same object with the same values
> that are infact different, makes persisting data a 100 times easier...
>
>> Why do you need a unique reference string for each variable? WTF!
>
> well because $a = 's'; $b = 's'; both are unique, internally php must hold
> a reference of some sort to each variable and where it's stored that is
> entirely unique; it would simply be a case of exposing this functionality
> /or/ adding functionality based on this.
>
>>> c: Method overloading
>>> TBH it's something I could live without, whereas a/b aren't, but it
>>> would be an ideal addition to php?
>>
>> PHP does not need method overloading as is found in other languages as it
>> has optional parameters with defaults. It is also possible to cast each
>> parameter into wahetever type is necessary. It achieves the same result
>> but using a different method.
>
> the same functionality can be achieved, however not without a lot of
> additional code to test variable types using conditional blocks with lots
> of is_ and instanceof comparisons; adding method overloading is by no
> means needed but would majorly simplify the code of scripts which need
> this functionality.
I disagree.
>> Absolute rubbish! You have obviously been used to a different language
>> and have recently moved to PHP, but cannot get used to the fact that it
>> *IS* a different language, therefore it has different syntax and achieves
>> similar things in different ways. If your feeble brain can't handle the
>> differences then I suggest you stick with your previous language and
>> LEAVE PHP ALONE!
>
> actually I've been a senior php dev for 5 years and muddled along trying
> to help people out on this list for a long time too - it is my primary
> language, PHP always changes and the beauty of the language is that it
> tries to allow people to program the way they want, hence it being both
> procedural and object orientated, obviously there's a need for this
> otherwise Type Hinting would never have been introduced.
>
> PHP could easily be a one for all language and AFAIK the only major
> functionality missing is static typing..? I'm not trying to knock PHP,
> simply expand it's functionality and scope by having additional *optional*
> functionality implemented - like namespaces, if you don't like 'em don't
> use 'em.
Static typing is not an option that can be turned ON or OFF. A language is
either one or the other.
>>
>> That's just my opinion, of course.
>>
And I think your opinion is totally without merit.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
> and really thanks! gives me the chance to explain a bit more :p
>
> ps: feeble lol
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