I'll be very glad to test this out! My various dev buildouts lack PIL :)
+1 for forging ahead!
Kim
On Mar 11, 2012, at 4:20 AM, David Glick <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/11/12 12:46 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 March 2012 06:58, Mikko Ohtamaa <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Last night while talking to Clayton and Liz about the whole
>> ZopeSkel/Paster/Templer/Crushinator situation it became clear that the story
>> for new developers is a complete mess.
>>
>> This is bad, and having a new shinny thing that "eases" Plone
>> development just made the situation even worse -- as long as someone must
>> use it and then <zopeskel create> & <paster addcontent>.
>>
>> Time to kill most of the available options, focus on **just one** and
>> have a compelling story to tell to newcomers.
>>
>>
>> +1 for cleaning up the old stuff before inventing new stuff
>>
>> A good step would be making buildout just work, as it is indented
>>
>> Yay for stop energy. :-/
>>
>> I want a solution that works now to a very specific problem: people expect
>> to be able to use an OS-managed/system Python to develop with Plone. And
>> when they try, their environment breaks in all kinds of hard-to-debug ways.
>>
>> I don't want a framework or something with a million things that can go
>> wrong. plone-devstart is a dirt simple script using nothing but the Python
>> standard library. And, crucially, it scans the environment looking for
>> known/common problems.
>>
>> I'm more concerned about the overlap with the installers, though that's a
>> slightly different discussion again.
>>
>> The point is that *once you have a stable/clean environment*, you can have
>> all kinds of good tools. But if you can't get those tools to install or run,
>> you're screwed. Even if buildout should "just work" you still need to
>> install it. And you still need to worry about whether you have the right
>> Python version. And you may still be missing PIL C library dependencies, or
>> have a poisonous libxml2 killing lxml dead in your global library, or be
>> missing Python headers or a C compiler. None of those are within Buildout's
>> scope, and they are causing real problems for real people *today*.
>
> Thanks for working on this, Martin. It sounds like a great tool and I'm
> looking forward to giving it a try.
>
> We do also really need to fix the ZopeSkel situation. Right now a ton of
> tutorials give instructions for it that just don't work with the new version,
> which is a huge huge barrier for newbies. But having ZopeSkel implementation
> and docs in sync is a different problem than getting a working development
> set up, so I don't understand the stop energy from people. plone-devstart and
> ZopeSkel are complementary tools.
>
> David
>
>
> David Glick
> Web Developer
> [email protected]
> 206.286.1235x32
>
>
>
> The NPO Engagement Party 2012. So much more fun than the wedding reception.
>
>
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