That sound you are all hearing is my mind boggling at what the hell is going on in this forum.
As Jim would say: Waaaaaaaa? On 18 August 2012 19:11, Alex Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > > Hi > > > On 2012-08-18 16:45:56 +0000, Martin Aspeli said: > > > > > On 18 August 2012 16:34, W. Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > It now appears, with e-mails to "Plone Setup" forum these two recent > postings - one from > > someone in UK - [email protected] - asking about Windows registry > Cleaner software > > and second apparently from Russian - [email protected] a > > reply offering such registry cleaner (assuredly malware), that the forum > has been hijacked > > by spam bots and idiots whose intentions veer completely to the opposite > of any purpose or > > interest in Plone Content Management Systems (CMS) in any form. > > > In hindsight the forum moderator should have instantly stopped any and all > comments > > on "Best Windows version for Plone install" discussion, since that topic > is extraneous > > to any help or support of Plone on the Microsoft Windows OS. > > > This forum/list is not moderated. At least not yet. We are trying to catch > and block the spammers, but these are all automatically generated spam, so > it's not that easy to stop. > > > We're on it. Please don't make the problem worse by over-reacting or > meta-posting about the spam, thereby compounding the noise. > > > > The anti-Windows sentiment is not really appropriate on this list, either. > Plone supports deployment and development on Linux, Mac OS X and Windows. > We intend to keep it that way. Most developers and users, anecdotally, use > OS X or Linux, but frankly there is no "slant" one way or another. > > > > +1 If there is any such perceived slant I think it's due to the inherent > nature of the various platforms. Plone-the-project must provide robust, > easy to use installers for "all major platforms". It just so happens that > Windows is: > > > - Not free > > - Harder to integrate > > - The most widely used OS in the world(1) > > > Most unix installers/distributions need only to be supplied to be useful. > The latest Windows installers seem to be causing a bit more confusion than > we'd like. IIUC, there is some effort to standardize every installer around > the Unified Installer, which I think must happen if we have any hope of > unconfusing people in the future. > > > To give you an example of the scale of the problem, let's start with > terminology. There are certain terms used in Plone that I absolutely hate, > because I feel they confuse end users. Terms like (not all of which I hate, > but all of which I'm certain confuse people, and in no particular order): > > > - Products > > - instance > > - zinstance > > - zopepy > > - Buildout > > - Eggs > > - GenericSetup > > - Archetypes > > - ZopeSkel > > - Templer > > - Diazo > > - ZEO > > - ArchGenXML > > - bootstrap > > - skins > > - portal_* > > - Zope > > - Zope2 > > - Zope3 > > - Zope Component Architecture > > - Zope Toolkit > > - External Method > > - Browser View > > - Viewlet > > - Portlet > > - repozo > > - recipes > > - bluebrints > > - transmogrifier > > - ZODB > > - Data.fs > > - component > > - interface > > - KSS > > - Acquisition > > - paster > > - CMF > > > We need to throw away or hide all this old terminolog and start over IMHO > (the terminology, not the actual technology which of course is much harder > to get rid of. And I'm not suggesting that Plone is unique in its wealth of > complex terminology used to describe the stack. Just that we've lost our > ability to provide end users with simple terminology to get the job done. > I.e. we the developers have become uncumbered with all of this technology, > and all of these terms). Here's some simple terminology I am comfortable > with: > > > - Python: The programming language used to build Plone, and the name of an > executable interpreter. > > - Plone: The name of a popular Python-based CMS, and the name of the > program that runs the Plone CMS application (c.f. instance) > > - Add-ons: Python code and other resources that add functionality to your > Plone website. > > - Themes: Add-ons that chanage the appearance of your Plone website. > > - Plone API: The programming interface I the programmer user to customize > Plone's default behavior, and to build applications on top of Plone. > > > And here's three more terms that are fair game: > > > - HTML > > - CSS > > - JavaScript > > > And while we're at it, let's add a few more fairly easy ones: > > > - Website: Text and other resources available at a URL. > > - Web application: A computer program whose user interface is a website. > > - CMS: A type of web application designed to make it easy for non > technical users to edit website content. > > > Everything else falls into the category of "if you really want to know > more, then…". And everything from the long list should fit into one of > the terms on the shorter list. > > > And that's just terminology. We need to have a discussion about what to > call things first before we can fix them. Again, all of this is IMHO > obviously. I'm sure others feel differently. But I'm adamant that a > discussion must occur. > > > For (stupid, simple) example: Do we call add-ons "products" for the next > five years? Who decides? What documentation and software needs to be > updated? Just this simple, stupid issue could entail a massive effort to > decide on and fix (I'm actually OK with calling them Products, but just > like with anything else in Plone, we have people calling them both and > that's confusing. At this point I'd really like to hear from someone, > anyone besides me that they should be called one or the other for the next > five years and why.)[2] > > > > Alex > > > > > (1) No idea if this is actually still true, but I suspect it is. > > > (2) It bears repeating, none of this is unique to Plone. Almost the exact > same thing is happening with Python and their packaging story, with the > proliferation of confusing information surrounding all of the technologies: > distutils, setuptools, distribute, distutils2, packagings, eggs, > distributions, and now the new "wheel" built-package format. > > > > > > Martin > > > > -- > > Alex Clark · http://pythonpackages.com > > _______________________________________________ > Setup mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-setup > >
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