So if Net Neutrality is failing now why keep it? Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Eric Oyen <[email protected]> wrote: > > yeah. btw, comcast is actively throttling torrent traffic as we speak (it was > posted on twitter about an hour ago). they are still throttling netflix. yet, > they claim they are abiding by their customer agreement not to do this. so, > this pretty much means that comcast (as the ISP) has already proven to lie to > their customers and to the FCC. > > so, given that, what is to stop the other providers (like verizon, AT&T, cox, > TW, T-mobile and others) from behaving just as badly? > > now, the situation is this: > since 1995 and the initial rollout of DSL, there were some 100 or so ISP's > here in the valley. most were still dialup. there was 2 over the air > (wireless other than cell) providers, cable was just getting started and > dialup was still common. less than 4 years later, fully half of the ISP's > have disappeared, broadband was getting cheaper and both the phone company > and cable companies had their own in house ISP. 1996 was the turning point > with the deregulation of the telco's, thus cutting out others from using DSL. > THen you also had big software (such as microsoft) trying to get in on the > action (they partnered with USWest, later to become QWest). fast forward to > mid 2005.. virtually no independent ISP's existed (or there were very few) > and dialup was fast becoming a distant memory in large cities. by this point, > you started seeing the consolidation of pathways onto the internet. there was > cellular (still slow), cable or DSL (no one uses T-1 or above anymore). With > mergers happening well into 2010 and later, the number of available routes to > the internet reduced down to the current 6. All of them own the facilities, > intervening cable/wire or airspace. anyone trying to compete with that > couldn't because those 6 entities have already set price points that no small > operator could match (another barrier to entry). > > so, here we are. we have 6 near monopolies with very similar plans, price > points, and capabilities. they have grown powerful enough that they can > dictate to local municipalities what is allowed or not. They have also > lobbied to get protectionist laws put in place to prevent new competition. > There are a couple of new operators coming on the scene: satellite internet > with planet wide coverage) and also aircraft mobile coverage that can cover > most of the land area at any given time. Once those systems are fully > operational, it might force the big 6 to take action, or improve their > services to compete. btw, a LEO satellite system can have a 400 mile wide > footprint and cost pennies to keep operational (we are talking micro > satellites here). > > the big question, will this new scenario improve things or lead to more of > the same? Also, how do we, as customers, make sure we have a good choice of > services? Will the government have to step in and pull some anti-trust > actions? > > lots of complex questions and no easy answers. > > -eric > from the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Future engineering Dept. > >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:04 PM, Matthew Crews wrote: >> >> I think some of y'all forget that the net neutrality debate isn't really >> about QoS, latency, or bandwidth. It is about ISPs intentionally throttling >> or blocking services and websites that compete directly with other services >> that an ISP might offer, or even for arbitrary reasons or no reasons at all. >> >> Since the vast majority of us are in the Phoenix area, we are likely >> serviced by either CenturyLink or Cox for our physical internet, and by >> Verizon, AT&T, Sprint or T-Mobile for cellular internet. Without net >> neutrality, Cox will be allowed to throttle services like Hulu, Netflix and >> Youtube to horribly slow speeds if they want, while allowing their own >> competing television services and streaming services to go through at high >> speed; they can "restore" normal speeds for an extra fee, or not. Verizon >> could block or throttle access to Google Drive, Apple iDrive, or One Drive, >> while freely allowing access to their competing "Verizon Cloud" and "Verizon >> Messages". The same with AT&T and blocking Skype, Google Hangouts, Apple >> Facetime, or WhatsApp. Unless of course you pay extra, or not if the ISP >> doesn't want you to access a service at all. >> >> In countries that do not have net neutrality, this isn't hypothetical. This >> actually happens. See: >> https://twitter.com/rokhanna/status/923701871092441088?lang=en >> >> Lets not forget that some ISPs were actively sabotaging certain network >> services such as Bittorrent. See: >> https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/10/evidence-mounts-that-comcast-is-targeting-bittorrent-traffic/ >> >> At some point, this does cross the line into corporate censorship if an ISP >> is allowed to arbitrarily block access to websites. Would you want to pay >> $5/mo for the "right" to access facebook.com, google.com, or ubuntu.com, or >> play games via Xbox Live or Steam? I sure as hell don't. With net neutrality >> gone, nothing is stopping this theoretical scenario from actually happening. >> >> If the goal is to free up network congestion from an ISP perspective, this >> is easily accomplished by imposing download limits (which Cox most certainly >> does, as well as all cellular providers, even under "unlimited" plans), and >> other content-neutral means (such as throttling during a peak time of day). >> Or ISPs can continue to raise prices. >> >> -Matt >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
