Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?
Joshua Zeidner wrote:
On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>
> On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>
wrote:
>
>
> Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
not in
> compliance.
>
>
>
> And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
Straight to the point. WE are PLUG.
There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the
group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of... The committee does
makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control. There
are no
by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at. PLUG
members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
So, your point is taken. If anyone is reserving the right to ban
someone, who has that right and what are the criteria? I don't know
the
answer to that question.
Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
Phoenix. Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation. Behind this somewhat
ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
the listserv. Very funny stuff in my view.
I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
purpose. If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
here, he should make that abundantly clear. Not because I am
challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
the show if anyone.
I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
my intention to smear him. I do not make any claims against his
character. He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
and I made no attempt to interfere with that. I asked for a simple
thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion. I
will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
I found the work environment here quite lacking. I could tell you quite
a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
experiences. I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not. I am quite sure that
recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
list directly.
To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
AND employees. I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
annoying. Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
they please. The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
working with these parties[3]. What phoenix currently needs is some
kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
concerns before[2]. Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas. There are people here who make
$300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
your gmail account. Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
commercial activity found in Silicon Valley. This infrastructure was
built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
work for them instead of against them.
Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
for whats best for all the participants here. thanks. jmz
[1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name! this person later was
recommended by someone else on this list!
[2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
[3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
job postings.
Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned. Ever.
I'd much rather continue as it has all these years. Self policing
works and this group is very good at it.
I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
Alan
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JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
IT Consultant
( 602 ) 490 8006
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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