I read this law. But do you know that a portion of the law may be invalid but it does not invalidate the entire contract?
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Paolo Falcone <[email protected]> wrote: > Good grief! Have you been living under a rock? > > RA-9369 Sec 12 mandates these provisions, to wit: > > “Once an AES technology is selected for implementation, the Commission > shall promptly make the source code of that technology available and > open to any interested political party or groups which may conduct > their own review thereof." > > What COMELEC is doing is ILLEGAL. Plain and simple. Welcome to the > reality that even constitutional bodies can do wrong. > > Go carry your trolling and one-liners elsewhere boy. > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Oscar Plameras <[email protected]> > wrote: >> What do you mean by law? >> >> The problem is we are too pedantic. >> >> If only we are a little bit practical, pragmatic, and sensible. >> >> Then, change will come. >> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Oscar Plameras >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> You're right. >>> >>> You get what you deserve, as they say. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Paolo Falcone <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> So we're just gonna trade quips and one liners eh? Any two monkeys can >>>> play that game. >>>> >>>> Then again, you still haven't proven that a blackbox test WILL work >>>> and SATISFY the requirement (BY LAW!) for the source code review. Or >>>> are you claiming invincible ignorance here? This ain't the forum for >>>> that! >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Oscar Plameras <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> That's why we are in a mess. >>>>> >>>>> There's a saying when you are in a hole, you stop digging. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> It's really up to you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Paolo Falcone <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Duh? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are conveniently forgetting that the PCOS is not just "Count and >>>>>>> Tabulate". It also has features to ensure that the system is NOT >>>>>>> tampered, whether during count or transmission, and that requires >>>>>>> crypto. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Horses for courses my ass. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If it were just simple to simply trust governments and people, there >>>>>>> wouldn't be a need for a military, or for crypto at all. But you're in >>>>>>> the real world, and not all can be trusted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paolo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Horses for courses. Military security is not comparable to a system >>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>> "Count and Tabulate. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Paolo Falcone <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> The system is indeed not designed to detect corruption, and neither >>>>>>>>> does a source code review indicate that with all degrees of certainty >>>>>>>>> the presence of a backdoor indicates corruption. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then again, only a source code review satisfies the requirement that >>>>>>>>> there will be no backdoors in the inspected application, be it put by >>>>>>>>> a corrupt programmer or a programmer in a hurry to get out of the >>>>>>>>> office. A blackbox testing with the specifications can only get you so >>>>>>>>> far - that the system is compliant as per specification. Whether it >>>>>>>>> exceeds or subverts the specification outside the test conditions is >>>>>>>>> something that you can only get with a code review. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Has anyone even wondered why the military is so anal about source code >>>>>>>>> and algorithm review when designing military ciphers? Once the >>>>>>>>> underlying mantra (Kerckhoff's principle) is thoroughly understood >>>>>>>>> then one will understand why a blackbox testing SIMPLY DOES NOT DO THE >>>>>>>>> JOB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It amazes me that there are still some segments in society that won't >>>>>>>>> extend the same level of scrutiny to the system that determines who >>>>>>>>> will run their government. And would rather outsource the scrutinizing >>>>>>>>> eyes to some non-stakeholder corporation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When it comes to reviewing software, you can automate all the tests, >>>>>>>>> but at the end of the day, NEVER TRUST A MACHINE TO DO A HUMAN'S JOB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> You should know that the system is not meant to detect corruption. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Danny Ching <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps I should qualify that. Lest the prorammers in the list >>>>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>>>> you. Hehehe >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think we should at least be realistic enough to note that some >>>>>>>>>>> corrupt officials are completely willing to corrupting anyone >>>>>>>>>>> including programmers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do I trust pogrammers? Not all. Do you? Btw. Let's keep the >>>>>>>>>>> discussion >>>>>>>>>>> to technical stuff and let us not question each other's technical >>>>>>>>>>> capabilities. Peace. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Danny Ching >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't trust programmers, you are in the wrong profession. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Danny Ching <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't trust programmers who hide their code. Although not all >>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewers are honest, all it takes to expose anomalies in open >>>>>>>>>>>>> source >>>>>>>>>>>>> is one honest reviewer. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> However in a close source system all it takes to corrupt the >>>>>>>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> one corrupt programmer. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Danny Ching >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't trust programmers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This precisely what's wrong with source code review. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Danny Ching <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very true. Unfortunately, I do not trust the programmers if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check their work. The purpose of source code validation is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check the computer or it's software's trustworthiness. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do what it's told. It is human corruption I'm worried about. Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside of computers that is a different problem altogether. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't want people blaming computerization for failure of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danny Ching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What you mean is the trustworthiness of the people running the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll say one thing from my experience, you can't use the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> human corruption. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Danny Ching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I see where you are coming from. It is not the system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried about sir. It is the trustworthiness of the system. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exposure of the code will show that it is not doing anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ordinary. Besides. If the code is indeed simple as you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checking the cource code should be easy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danny Ching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A tester does not need to know about programming to test and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a System. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 7:47 PM, fooler mail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Oscar Plameras >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, Election Automation Software is one of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easiest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> develop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is "Count and Tally", nothing complicated and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convoluted. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.. BUT... the purpose of source code review is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is something beyond the count and tally thing which cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your simulation test.. as what danny said - TRIGGERS.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special keyboard hotkey, special packets, special ER and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trigger the manipulation of votes to do the dagdag-bawas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fooler. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Paolo >>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Paolo >>>>>>> Sent from Makati, Man, Philippines >>>>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________ >>>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Paolo >>>> Sent from Makati, Man, Philippines >>>> _________________________________________________ >>>> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >>>> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >>>> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >>> >> _________________________________________________ >> Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List >> http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug >> Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph >> > > > > -- > Paolo > Sent from Makati, Man, Philippines > _________________________________________________ > Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List > http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug > Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph _________________________________________________ Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List http://lists.linux.org.ph/mailman/listinfo/plug Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph
