I never knew, I saw them many times just clean them off pick up from there but at times the whole thing was no longer acceptable. Been a good while and I was involved in other things and did not ask at the time.
On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 2:48 AM Ted Mittelstaedt <[email protected]> wrote: > Why replace them? Just take the electrode out, wash them off and scrub > with a stiff wire brush, then replace the electrolyte with new sulfuric > acid & water. LOL > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: PLUG <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck Hast > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2026 5:27 PM > To: Portland Linux/Unix Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PLUG] hammered by sudden UPS power failure during a key > backup > > The best ones were the single cell wet cells in big glass containers. > Those things lasted years. > And when they needed replacement they just replaced the cell, not the > whole container. > > But if you were lucky and they were replacing those with more modern > technology, you got some great aquariums. > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 6:41 PM Ted Mittelstaedt <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > In all of the large telephone switch CO's I've been in the 48v battery > > bank was WET cells. > > > > I think the "gel cell" was a marketing triumph. In one fell stroke > > they replaced a wet cell that would normally have a useful lifespan of > > 5-6 years with the same technology that has a lifespan of half that - > > so you are replacing batteries twice as fast. > > > > It's why I don't use the AGM glass mat batteries as starting batteries > > in my vehicles. > > > > Ted > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PLUG <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck Hast > > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2026 7:19 PM > > To: Portland Linux/Unix Group <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] hammered by sudden UPS power failure during a key > > backup > > > > When I worked in the glass container industry dealing with inspection > > machines, each machine had an internal sine wave APC UPS or a Tripp > > Lite rack mount UPS installed. The batteries were replaced religiously > > every 2 years. We did not worry about checking the batteries we just > > replaced them, never had a power loss, When I was at the Kalama plant > > we did have one UPS failure but it was not due to batteries. The UPS > > failed off line but kept mains power on the affected circuits so we > > were able to do a proper shutdown and swap it out. > > > > I think with lead acid you are better off doing the change out by time. > > > > On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 1:37 AM Ted Mittelstaedt > > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Randall, > > > > > > Through long experience I have found that only the original Lead > > > Acid AGM or Gel Cells that come in a brand new UPS have anywhere > > > close to 5 years in them. Any time I have replaced a set of these > > > in a UPS no matter how much money I have spent on whatever kind of > > > batteries I've > > never gotten 5 years > > > again. At most it's been 3 years. Sometimes 2 years. Maybe the > > Lithium > > > batteries are going to be better but those UPSes are too spendy for > > > my budget, yet. > > > > > > Now, the "textbook" answer from APC is that their SmartUPSes have a > > > "calibration mode" The way this works is, you put a set of fresh > > > batteries in an SmartUPS. Then you let them completely charge for a > > > day or so. Then you run a calibration test from the control panel > > > of > > the UPS. > > > The test puts the batteries under load and starts a clock and then > > > starts checking the voltage of the batteries. When the battery > > > voltage drops below 11.2 volts or some such then the test stops. > > > The > > UPS then "learns" > > > the battery's "discharge curve" and changes a calibration factor. > > > The factor allows the UPS to tell how long the battery is going to > > > last when put under load. > > > > > > The SmartUPS then weekly self-tests the batteries by putting them > > > under load for a few seconds. Based on what level the battery > > > voltage drops as a result of being put under load the UPS is then > > > supposed to be able to predict how long the batteries are going to > > > last in a real > > blackout. > > > > > > When the batteries are a year old then you are supposed to run a > > > calibration test again which figures out if the calibration factor > > > needs to be changed. > > > > > > Now, I do not know if this testing by APC is really able to predict > > > how long an actual battery lasts or whether it's snake oil. > > > > > > The articles I have read on lead acid batteries all seem to say some > > > basics. First point is that if the battery is overcharged then the > > > electrolyte starts boiling off the water. (ie: converting the water > > > into free hydrogen and oxygen) With a car starting battery this is > > > not a problem since if you just check the electrolyte level and keep > > > the battery topped off, then you are fine. With a sealed lead acid > > > battery then the electrolyte paste has some magic chemical in it > > > that supposedly "recombines the hydrogen and oxygen back into water" > > > > > > The second point is that temperature matters greatly. Here is the > > > output of apcupsd from my 14 year old SmartUPS: > > > > > > root@officeserver:/usr/home/tedm # apcaccess > > > APC : 001,042,1055 > > > DATE : 2026-06-10 22:29:42 -0700 > > > HOSTNAME : officeserver > > > VERSION : 3.14.14 (31 May 2016) freebsd UPSNAME : APCUPS > > > CABLE : USB Cable > > > DRIVER : MODBUS UPS Driver > > > UPSMODE : Stand Alone > > > STARTTIME: 2025-12-17 05:22:44 -0800 > > > MODEL : Smart-UPS 1500 > > > STATUS : ONLINE > > > LINEV : 120.9 Volts > > > LOADPCT : 29.2 Percent > > > LOADAPNT : 22.7 Percent > > > BCHARGE : 100.0 Percent > > > TIMELEFT : 56.0 Minutes > > > MBATTCHG : 5 Percent > > > MINTIMEL : 3 Minutes > > > MAXTIME : 0 Seconds > > > OUTPUTV : 120.2 Volts > > > DWAKE : 0 Seconds > > > DSHUTD : 0 Seconds > > > ITEMP : 27.0 C > > > BATTV : 27.2 Volts > > > LINEFREQ : 60.0 Hz > > > OUTCURNT : 2.75 Amps > > > LASTXFER : Automatic or explicit self test NUMXFERS : 7 XONBATT : > > > 2026-06-03 07:45:32 -0700 TONBATT : 0 Seconds > > > CUMONBATT: 46 Seconds > > > XOFFBATT : 2026-06-03 07:45:41 -0700 > > > LASTSTEST: 2026-06-03 07:45:33 -0700 SELFTEST : OK STATFLAG : > > > 0x05000008 MANDATE : 2012-11-03 SERIALNO : AS1244115771 BATTDATE : > > > 2023-12-14 NOMOUTV : 120 Volts NOMPOWER : 1000 Watts NOMAPNT : > > > 1440 VA FIRMWARE : UPS 15.0 / 00.5 END APC : 2026-06-10 22:30:23 > > > -0700 root@officeserver:/usr/home/tedm # > > > > > > You will notice that there is an internal temp there. This is > > > because this model of UPS has an internal temperature sensor. You > > > will also notice that 27C is at the top upper limit of ideal > > > operating temperature. This model of UPS has 100% steel case and > > > this particular UPS is sitting on the concrete floor of my basement > > > so it's as cold as it can get yet there's still heat in the UPS. > > > > > > You will also note that the battery date is 2023. This is because > > > when I last changed the batteries in this UPS I configured that date > > > into the NVRAM of the UPS. > > > > > > You will note the load % is about 30%. This is around the minimum > > amount > > > of load needed for an adequate self-test. Too little load and the > > > UPS will not be able to drain the batteries at all during a 3 second > > > self-test and thus will not be able to get usable data regarding the > > battery. > > > > > > You will also note "timeleft" is 56 minutes. > > > ] > > > I think that it is probably not possible for a 3 year old sealed > > > lead acid battery set to power a 2.75 amp load plus the inverter > > > power loss for an hour. The ridiculous timeleft, the excessive > > > heat, really point to the beginnings of thermal runaway. These > > > batteries are close to the end of their life - even though the UPS > > > self test has NOT caught this yet. They now have significant > > > internal resistance and are > > generating excessive heat > > > in the UPS I should replace them. > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: PLUG <[email protected]> On Behalf Of American > > > Citizen > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2026 5:37 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [PLUG] hammered by sudden UPS power failure during a key > > > backup > > > > > > To all > > > > > > I am struggling to recover from a very bad power failure during a > > > key upgrade from my OS openSuse Leap 15.6 to Leap 16.0 upgrade. > > > > > > My UPS unit completely clicked off right during the backup. > > > > > > It has been several hours now and I am trying to carefully pick up > > > all the pieces and verify that I did NOT lose any data. > > > > > > My question to all of you is simple: > > > > > > How can you tell the health of the lead-acid batteries in your UPS > unit? > > > From what I can gather, this cannot be done live via any linux > > operations. > > > > > > My lead acid batteries were shot, and bulging out their case. > > > > > > Yes I was aware that I had 5 years time on these back up lead-acid > > > batteries and was risking total failure, which actually occurred > > > this afternoon for me. > > > > > > How do you keep on top of the UPS units so you don't have a rather > > > foolish incident like mine today? > > > > > > Randall > > > > > > p.s My unit was the Cyberpower CP1350AVRLCD (see > > > https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/intelligent-lcd/cp1350 > > > av > > > rlcd/ > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
